turn based or real-time combat?

[jack1974]

I am currently undecided between two possibilities that I think I could code well enough:
1. turnbased, movement based on initiative, there is a sort of minimap of the battlefield, so the character positions matters (mage should keep distance, melee would need you to be nearby). I think could code a decent AI
2. semi-realtime, you give all the orders to your party, then they're executed. The order is still based on each character initiative, so you'd have on bottom of screen a "movement order queue" like those seen in Disciples 3, Heroes of Might & Magic, and so on. Would be a bit harder to do, but since there won't be a minimap, it should balance the coding difficulty.

Which one could be more fun? mumble mumble...

[jack1974]

For this game I think I'm going to use turnbased system with initiative and Action Points. My main concern with Planet Stronghold was that people after a while got tired of some battles, which is of course "normal". With ANY RPG you're tired after playing 30-40 battles, and I think the possible solution is only:
- always try to have new stuff in battles (but that's very hard, since sooner or later you'll see all the skills or all the different enemies)
- try to make battles hard (that's what I did with PS, but some people complained exactly because of that!! :D)
- have a way to do quick-combat for easy battles
- autobalance the enemies so there's always a challenge

the last two solutions are the ones I'm going to use. Differently from PS, you'll be able to skip or use auto-combat for battles that clearly you're winning in EASY mode, while in HARD mode the enemies will always be balanced to your party. This doesn't mean that every battle will be hard, but the enemy level will go up accordingly. For example an encounter is with a group of Goblin: I'll define it as "Goblin 2 levels below your party". So at your party level 5, they'll be 3, but if your party is 10, they'll be 8 and so on. Hard difficulty obviously will be only for the master hardcore gamers!
With the skip, the easy mode should really be easy to play. Skipping battles will be possible only for non plot-crucial ones, or better only for those that are clearly simple. Of course skipping the battles will mean shorten the game, but that's player choice! Even if is absurd, I've read of some people that wished they could skip battles completely in Planet Stronghold because they were curious to know how the story was going on...

[Elmsdor]

Got tired after 30-40 battles? I loved them, farmed every single one I could

Although all honestly, the last two options you're raising with the relative difficulties and auto combat is mighty fine.

Still, what tipped you to pick 4x over Real Time?

I also noted that in PS, the numbers of battles are limited, so you need to squeeze exp. Would you consider random battles for exp in this or PS expac?

Cheers.

[jack1974]

Got tired after 30-40 battles? I loved them, farmed every single one I could

Hehe I know, that's why I said SOME users! Every one has different tastes, can't argue with that... even if I always liked battles in any RPG I played (even more than the story).

Still, what tipped you to pick 4x over Real Time?

Well because real-time or semi-realtime would have been harder to make, and also probably more difficult to balance. I'm building a RPG framework with help of a coder, and I think I'll be able to adapt this system to a more real-time game in future titles. But for now, for this game, I want to have something easier to code. Also I am not sure that without a real map of the battlefield a real-time action would work really well in term of gameplay.

I also noted that in PS, the numbers of battles are limited, so you need to squeeze exp. Would you consider random battles for exp in this or PS expac?

Yes for sure. When hopefully the artist returns from her sabbatical break (lol) and finishes the art, my plans are to include a strategy element in the game, think like Risk but on the planet surface. So in theory the battles will be unlimited (even if you'll be able to decide if fight or have CPU automatically resolve them for you).

[SpectralTime]

I'd like to point out, though, that, much as I enjoy a good fight, I prefer to be able to, from time to time, circumvent combat via skill use or clever role-playing. That was one of my favorite features in PS, and I feel that it can be reimplemented by either narrowing the list of skills or going for pure "talk your way out" role-play.

[jack1974]

Do you mean for PS add-on or for Loren RPG? for PS I'll still keep the actual system to avoid some combats, for Loren I am having coded a new quest system similar to DA/Fallout, featuring subquests (or sub-step as you prefer) that can be added/removed offering dynamic quests.
This means that if you get the quest from Ogre1 to kill Knight2, you can either kill it, or talk with Knight2 that will offer you 1000gold if you kill Ogre1 mother. You go to Ogre1 mother and she will offer you a magic item if you spare her life and kill Knight2, and you can either kill her or kill Knight 2.

[SpectralTime]

Do you mean for PS add-on or for Loren RPG? for PS I'll still keep the actual system to avoid some combats, for Loren I am having coded a new quest system similar to DA/Fallout, featuring subquests (or sub-step as you prefer) that can be added/removed offering dynamic quests.
This means that if you get the quest from Ogre1 to kill Knight2, you can either kill it, or talk with Knight2 that will offer you 1000gold if you kill Ogre1 mother. You go to Ogre1 mother and she will offer you a magic item if you spare her life and kill Knight2, and you can either kill her or kill Knight 2.

Well, yes, like that, but also the ability to either:

A: Roll a Bluff check to convince either or both parties that the job's been done, or a Charisma check to convince them to reconcile, or a Stealth check to set a trap and wound one or the other, allowing for an easier fight against an injured/immobilized opponent, etc.

or

B: By picking the right selection of options availiable, obtain one of the above outcomes.

In short, giving the player options to decide the outcome without immediately resorting to combat. I feel there'll be plenty of fighting anyway, and possible means of avoiding fights or making them easier adds a lot to a game, in my opinion.

However, they also require more complex mechanics and coding to achieve, so, while disappointed, I will understand completely if you choose to leave them out.

[jack1974]

Ah I see. For this RPG I am not sure yet if I'll do that, since as I said I want something less complex to make. Sort of foundation to which build up more complex games later. I know what you mean and I like those things in RPG as well (after all I love Fallout!) but there are also people who like more simple stuff. So I thought to make them happy and at same time write a system (or better have a real coder write it!) so I can reuse it in future RPG adding new content every time.
Something like:
- Loren RPG: basic skill system, combat, maybe small inventory (not sure about this yet), simple quests
- next RPG: advanced skills, improved combat, full inventory with lots of slots available, advanced quests
and so on, a bit like what Spidweb did in the past, he built up a RPG framework through YEARS and several released product. I really want to follow this path because with PS I had a moderately complex thing but I had to "hurry" to make the game in 6 months rather than 1-2 years, and in the end the system I made can't be reused / improved easily.

[Elmsdor]

I think SpectralTime was suggesting that there be alternative actions to combat, that will allow the PC to skip it via dialogue or noncombat actions?

Personally, blah. Action and more of it, for studs and babes to show off! I know many boys and girls enjoy that sort of thing :D

And Visual Novels are a different kettle, not suited to this me thinks.

6 Months to build Planet Stronghold is amazing. But yes, if you can build an eventual framework for your sequential RPG works, cheering you on!

Complexity is my meat and potatoes. I spent 20+ hours, mix maxing character's stats in Planet Stronghold, and will enjoy seeing the new upgrading system in Loren.

Cheers.

[jack1974]

Personally, blah. Action and more of it, for studs and babes to show off! I know many boys and girls enjoy that sort of thing :D

@Spectraltime see what I meant? different people, different tastes!
I like both action/combat and "real roleplay". But obviously is easier to start with a welldone "pure combat" RPG, because once you have that, you can add new features/stuff since you have already a solid combat system/ruleset working.
Another even bigger step will have some sort of strategy game, sort of the big picture of the battle, and be able to research stuff or have income. For example I liked in Fable 2 that you could have shops that gave you recurring income, such sort of things, makes the game more immersive

Complexity is my meat and potatoes. I spent 20+ hours, mix maxing character's stats in Planet Stronghold, and will enjoy seeing the new upgrading system in Loren.

Heh nice. I think you'll enjoy Loren then, since you won't be able to max all the skilltree in one single playthrough