computer games forum

Started the discussion on twitter but with 140 chars is hard to explain...

SOTW is definitely NOT like Loren. It shares same world, has some cameos, and even artist is the same. However, SOTW was supposed to be a "small RPG game" (tm) that somehow turned out to be a huge RPG As the name says, is primarily a RPG, while there are romances and some nice love scenes, it doesn't have 3109801 romance combos like Loren. It just wasn't possible to do it in time, and besides, there's already Loren 2 for that. I also wanted to try something different, a RPG that could be definitely called RPG by everyone and not "a dating sim with RPG mechanics" as some called Loren

I don't think that's a good definition for Loren either, but in practice if we want we can think it like:
Loren is 70% dating sim, and 30% RPG
SOTW is 70% RPG and 30% dating sim

SOTW improvements on the battle, inventory, items (random items), enemies (just think about the new AI... a whole different game!), quests, the isometric map, skills, etc. are HUGE. The romance and amount of dialogues were sacrificed for this.

It is a sort of experiment: though I have to say that the amount of work I had to do to improve the RPG part is really a lot, so unless it performs REMARKABLY WELL compared to Loren (so far preorders are OK but need to wait the official release to know better) I definitely don't want to spend so much time again on a insane project like this myself. I love RPGs but I also have a life, and this year I was really working too much on the complex code (I always work, but one thing is coding a dating sim or even a simulation/strategy game, and another one is a RPG!!).

jack1974 wrote:SOTW improvements on the battle, inventory, items (random items), enemies (just think about the new AI... a whole different game!), quests, the isometric map, skills, etc. are HUGE. The romance and amount of dialogues were sacrificed for this.

*thumbs up*
I'm a roleplayer first and foremost, even if I do enjoy my share of VNs as well. As much as I've had fun playing Loren, it's kind of obvious that with SotW's superior battle mechanics and my preferences of gaming, SotW in beta with 2/4 acts released already wins over Loren (+extension).

And also, I do joke around with the "romanceable?" question here, but in reality I'm happier with the more limited options. As a player who likes to complete her games as close to 100% as possible, 3109801 romance options are ... extensive and above a certain number, they don't really add to the replay value any longer, imHo. While playing out all of the available options in Loren, it started to get a bit tiring and while I do realize that I had mostly just my own obsessive nature to blame for this, my top 1 response from pressing the "Romance" button in the game at the end of it all came from Sauzer.

It was so sweet to be finally told no.

I hope SotW will win vs Loren --- and not just in my book where it already has. (and this was not to degrade the value of Loren, just trying to say why SotW >>>>> Loren from my point of view) And seriously, I'm not expecting any indie dev to push out a game like this every other year. I'm just extremely happy when it does happen.

Thanks I simply think are two different kind of games, and the preference depends on tastes. Though because SOTW requires a lot of effort to be done, I want to be sure before committing into something bigger like could be Loren 2 (same complexity as SOTW + a lot of romances). Otherwise if both do well I can alternate the kind of games I do, one "more RPG" and another with "more romances".

Both have a lot of value, I've Pre-Ordered SOTW and I'm trying to help test it (but it never bugs out for me so i don't get a chance ). It's a great game with a really good story.
RPG's have always been pretty much my favorite genera of game, I love having control over a fascinating in depth story, but honestly the most compelling part of the stories is always the romance options. Obviously that's what drew me here in general, I stumbled across Spirited Heart on Steam Greenlight, and not being in touch with the indie scene really, I had never seen anything at all like it, I voted for it, bought it, played it, and have been hooked on these games ever since . I like the gameplay of RPG's and customizing my character, but honestly, that comes second for me, the story what truly is important to me. I know the same is not for everyone, and that's fine, but I happily forgave the environment Recycling of Dragon Age II because I loved the story, I also enjoyed the combat, but that was secondary again.
I certainly wouldn't complain if you made more SOTW style RPG's, and I would likely love them too. RPG's are fun, and the I have confidence the story wouldn't lack, but I'm on team Loren personally. I will concede that I prefer action RPG's, or at least having action commands to straight up turn based (not suggesting you should do that, I realize how much extra coding that would be, especially just for one nut ). However, I personally put my vote down for more story/romance driven games than gameplay. For the same reasons, while I love both of them, I prefer Loren to Planet Stronghold. It was much more interesting IMHO the level of depth to the relationships in Loren, compared to talking about Michelles ex, helping her get a gun, and then going to a bar with her. If lots of other people want more RPGish games, I will enthusiastically wait for them, if I were casting a deciding vote, I'd go for more Dating-Sim. Though most importantly, I am a firm believer in the choice of the Dev, pleasing your fans is a great thing, but in the end it should be determined by what you want to do Jack . I wasn't happy about ME3's ending persay, but I believed in Biowares Right to make that decision. So the real question is what do YOU want to make? From what I've seen the community will likely support you in your choice .
Basically in summary, both are good types of game, I personally root for Loren style, what's most important is what you want to make, based on history it will likely be a good game .

When I discovered Loren and Planet Stronghold, I was mostly interested in the RPG aspect. While it's not perfect, the foundation for combat system wasn't too bad, actually I liked it better than some of the better known RPGs I played.

My apprecation for visual novels came later.

iWeasle wrote:Though most importantly, I am a firm believer in the choice of the Dev, pleasing your fans is a great thing, but in the end it should be determined by what you want to do Jack .

Well I like both dating sim and RPGs In general I always like when there's a story in a game, that's why I'm doing a new (crazy? time will tell!) thing like doing a full story for my tower defense game
However, I've realized that doing RPGs like SOTW takes a LOT of effort, and unfortunately I need also to look at the financial aspect. Note that I'm not talking about getting rich (it was never my goal) but having a decent revenue so that's "worth it". And when you do a dating sim that takes you 3-4 months max is one thing, when you do a RPG that takes 10 months (and of CRAZY CODING! haha) the revenues should be much higher, and nowadays is getting hard with a lot of competition.

Anyway, it could simply be that I'm a bit burned also because of the various Ren'Py updates that messed up my schedule! Even if is true that I would like to work a bit on some other games now. Next year (or when I finished SOTW) I hope to be working on PSCD and Spirited Heart 2 making a lot of more gameplay trying to get close to that masterpiece that is Princess Maker 2 (won't be easy)

I like both game but I must say I like SOTW a lot more, but I won't say that I prefer the RPG side over the VN side. The 2 games are to different to say"if you like SOTW more you like RPG side more"
I like the characters, the story and its theme of SOTW a lot more that loren(and I love the idea behind saren/elenor).

I enjoy discovering ninim and dingirra (how the people live and on the main cast "live") and the fact that we have an entire act(with sidequest, they help a lot) in each. In loren most the place you discover are just "there", they are only there for the story to have a setting(you could change the backstory of some ,it wouldn't change anything in the game, the only important thing is to which species belong the place.You can't say the same about SOTW, Dingirra is important, act 2 is build around it, the setting, it's politics and the characters. Loren has its characters , SOTW has the characters and its world.

For the battle, SOTW is better that Loren. I think I don't need to say anything about it.

Romance wise, I want a lot of romance but I think it should depend of the type and the story of the game,for example It wouldn't make sense for SOTW to have 16 romances option like loren 2.

On the subject of RPG vs VN i think both type of games can coexist.

the difference is sotw is better

yayswords wrote:the difference is sotw is better

LOL....That's not really helping but at least it's straight to the point.

Haha thanks. I really like how the SOTW combat turned out. Sure it could be improved, but you can say that about any game. I think that more than the combat itself it could be interesting to change the "metagame" surrounding it. Like if I go "pure gameplay" without a story, having a roster of fighters from which you can pick a party and send out to do quests, the party members can get injured and need days to heal, and several dungeons/places to visit with randomized rewards. Well maybe one day I'll do a game like that