computer games forum

Oops! thanks, I've updated the post tweaking the numbers a bit!

What about the birdies .. I think they are called griffons? How big are they?

And more importantly: Will an average griffon carry more or less any Amazon and her platemail and twohanded Warhammer? Or are only the biggest of griffons able to carry royalty - or slightly above average Amazons - and the griffon corps is composed of mostly the smaller and slender Amazons? (Due to weight restrictions)

I'll make use of this promo image that I did for my Thanksgiving sale:

as you can see that griffon has no trouble to carry Breza
I didn't made my mind but I think would be cool that each griffon can carry one or more amazons (or people in general) and even armors or heavy weapons won't be a problem, most likely would only slow them down or make them more tired
What is sure is that griffons are an "Amazon exclusive", meaning that only the Amazon have managed to tame those animals. Humans, dwarves, and even elves can't ride them

jack1974 wrote: What is sure is that griffons are an "Amazon exclusive", meaning that only the Amazon have managed to tame those animals. Humans, dwarves, and even elves can't ride them

The dwarves will be quite content with wyverns

Heh not sure, I think wyverns could be more for goblins or demons. I imagine the dwarves be afraid of flying. Maybe they use an airship/zeppelin

wikipedia wrote:The average human male is about 1.7–1.8 metres (5.6–5.9 ft), the average human female is about 1.6–1.7 metres (5.2–5.6 ft) in height.

Wiki numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt and the average for males looks a bit low, but I suppose the average height of men in the US and Europe is higher than in other parts of the world like Mexico and Japan. So this isn't a true average, so much as a range of regional averages, although not all regional averages, because if you look at Northern Europe, the regional averages can go quite a bit higher than the highest of those Wiki numbers.

Lonestar51 wrote:I would think that an amazon as big as a human male is reasonably, as in their society the larger (= stronger, better in combat) females will tend to dominate and have more children on average. That said, having them bigger than modern human males strikes me as very unlikely, as the effect should not be that pronounced and in any non-modern-west setting occasional famines tend to reduce growth.

Modern fantasy tales tend to assume all sorts of things that never existed in medieval times, ie. modern morals & cultural values, the plentiful availability of reliable birth control, modern extended childhoods until the age of 18, women soldiers as strong as men, etc.. Adding in adequate nutrition enabling people to reach their maximum possible height isn't really that big of a deal on top of all the rest.

As for Amazon women being taller than men, there are plenty of creatures in the animal kingdom where the females are larger and stronger than the males, from insects and fish to reptiles and birds. It would not be hard to imagine a separate population of human beings where a mutation on the X chromosome resulted in increased height and size for females only. Another possibility is to look at it as the result of divine intervention by the goddess of Amazons as a reward to the women of the culture in return for their faithfulness.

BTW, Jack, I love that illustration of Breza on the griffon!

P_Tigras wrote: As for Amazon women being taller than men, there are plenty of creatures in the animal kingdom where the females are larger and stronger than the males, from insects and fish to reptiles and birds. It would not be hard to imagine a separate population of human beings where a mutation on the X chromosome resulted in increased height and size for females only. Another possibility is to look at it as the result of divine intervention by the goddess of Amazons as a reward to the women of the culture in return for their faithfulness.

Yes is a fantasy game, so Amazon could be not "normal human beings" but a breed/race, mixed maybe by some goddess and such, as you says

P_Tigras wrote: BTW, Jack, I love that illustration of Breza on the griffon!

Yes it's very cool indeed! I just sent all the camp talk poses to color, I'm really looking forward to see them colored (even if will take a while)

P_Tigras wrote:Modern fantasy tales tend to assume all sorts of things that never existed in medieval times, ie. modern morals & cultural values, the plentiful availability of reliable birth control, modern extended childhoods until the age of 18, women soldiers as strong as men, etc.. Adding in adequate nutrition enabling people to reach their maximum possible height isn't really that big of a deal on top of all the rest.

While I agree that most fantasy stuff has only loose ties to anything resembling realism, I actually prefer those works where the author thinks before adding changes "just because they are cool". In the case of amazons I can easily believe that the selective pressure is inverse to other humans: females are selected for being big (height) and general toughness, while males are selected for being submissive, and without a strong preference of any given height. (Yes, this is just the other way round as for us.) Thus amazons would be as big as male humans, and male Amazons would be as big as human females. And just to be sure, there is also a cost for being too big.

Now I can see anyone handwaving this away, in the name of "just because it is cool". But add too much fairy dust to the story, and the work is no longer consistent, or interesting. Then anything can happen, and nothing makes sense. Do it sparse, and when you do it make it meaningful, and explore the consequences, then I like it. But too often it is just horrible.

Well these are my 2 cents.

Lonestar51 wrote:Now I can see anyone handwaving this away, in the name of "just because it is cool". But add too much fairy dust to the story, and the work is no longer consistent, or interesting. Then anything can happen, and nothing makes sense. Do it sparse, and when you do it make it meaningful, and explore the consequences, then I like it. But too often it is just horrible.

Absolutely true. I agree. I like keeping things realistic when I world-build, because it's just that more immerse. That said, I don't see why we can't allow at least a good portion of Amazons to be taller than a good portion of human men. They don't lack for food and they selectively mate for the very purpose of getting larger. I understand that it's a sexual turn off for some people to have a woman be taller than you, but their largeness is one of their most defining traits. And the tallest Amazons would definitely be their leaders, so Loren is taller than most human men. (She is shorter than Karen because Karen chose mates for other reasons...) Saren is an exceptionally tall man, because he is part Amazon and had a tall father. While it's not going to be true in all cases, I feel it's safe to call Amazon women tall in consideration of both men and women.

When we are talking about "averages" it is important to keep in mind that there are always outliers in both directions: Some Amazons like the royal family will be unusally big while others are smaller than usual. For the amazon males I expect an even wider range of height: recent captives and first generation sons will be bigger than sons of nth generation slaves; and anyway the breeding slaves height would matter less than other considerations.

As far as the physical attractions of "too big" goes: for the amazons breeding is certainly not about love or physical attraction, it is portrayed as more or less considered by the brain alone. From the POV of the male there is not much choice at all involved, though I expect some scheming in the slave quarters to become attractive (or not, in some cases where pariculary ugly amazons are involved). Which leaves the POV of the gamer, who may imagine himself to be bigger than Karen anyway. (It is hard to measure a real person against a screen figure, so whatever result you arrive at may be correct.) Even if Loren is considered bigger than the gamer, at least here in this forum "strong" females like Loren, Elenor or Krimm from SOTW seem to be quite cherished.