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Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:08 am
by un_mog
I just bought Loren the Amazon Princess from Humble Bundle, it was the main reason I decided to get it actually, and after playing some I had some questions. I tried googling things unsuccessfully though, found a wiki but there wasnt much technical information there. i ended up posting on the steam forums and got directed here. So I have a few questions that I hope no one minds answering.

1= I had questions about the stats of equipment. Most of the stats seems fairly straight forward... like how most of it is explained when you mouse over them. Problem is, most doesnt mean all of it. For example, attack... I guess that's your chance to hit? Is Magic like the magic equivalent of chance to hit then or does it mean magic defense? And is damage just a flat damage bonus to everything? I tested it and it seems like my fireballs do more damage with gear that gives damage bonuses over magic bonuses. What does defense do, lower the damage you take in general, or only physical attacks? And what exactly do criticals do, is it simply double damage or something else?

2= Is there a complete list of status effects? I'm curious to know what everything does exactly since I can't seem to find any specifics. For instance a lot of the skills mention a percentage chance to cause a status effect, but I cant find any information on what those status effects actually do until I get hit with them in game and mouse over them. For instance Loren has a skill called knock down that causes confusion. So I was like "Cool so he will attack his own friends? Or is it a stun of some kind?" Find out, it only lowers some magic related ability, still unsure on what confusion does actually... so, is there a list that explains them all somewhere?

3= Any advice for a new first timer at this? I got rocked hard early on for one of the +5 fame tasks on normal, put it on easy and wow the difference is maybe too much, so I plan to power up a bit and put it back on normal. But yus, things to keep an eye out for, or to avoid? Tips in general? Should i be saving money for something or spending it all on gear? I've already looked at some of the other tips and guides here though I meant more specific advice. For instance it seems anytime you get a romance option its in your best interest to click them as there never seems to be a reason not to, and they dont pop up often meaning if you miss them they're gone I guess. Or what kinds of gear I should focus on when Im starting out, or if its best to just be saving my money for something in particular later on. Or the best way to get money~ stuff like that.

Edit= Got a couple more questions after playing some more. How can I turn up the character voice volumes. They say things sometimes when they attack or win a battle, but its hard to hear over the other stuff. After tinkering with the sound settings trying to lower other stuff it's no easier to hear. What maybe is the voice volumes tied to? Also... hmm... there was something else I wanted to ask as well but now I can't remember it. I guess I should have made a note...

Edit2= Not sure what Im doing wrong with Karen either... she's a thief so... she does damage based on her skill right? Yet even with a strong spear she's doing pretty terrible damage. I moved her to the front since I figured maybe the spear being a melee weapon needed to be in the front row but it only got marginally better. Should I be pumping mostly her strength despite the thief class? I did find it odd that she would be a thief anyway, amazons and strength etc seemed she would be warrior type like Loren. Personally I dont really like the thief skills either, maybe to do damage she needs them or something...

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:21 pm
by Anima_
Welcome here, I'll try my best to answer your questions.

1) The attack and magic attribute do two different things. For one they are compared to the defence attribute to determine a damage multiplier. That multiplier is capped at 2.0 and 0.5. So having more than twice the targets defence in attack will not yield more benefits.
In addition if attack or magic is lower than the targets defence the skill can miss completely. The chance for that is quite low but can become substantial with higher defence.
Critical hits multiply the damage again, I'm not sure about the current multiplier. That'd be a question for Jack.

2) As far as I know there is no complete list of status conditions. They work mostly the same though. Elemental conditions lower the targets resistance and deal damage over time. Then there is a condition for each attribute that lowers it. Unfortunately the conditions are mostly basic stuff like that.

3) I'm probably the wrong person for beginner advice but the usual stuff applies. Focus fire, use fast actions, remember potions and in difficult story fights you can use a few bombs. Stagger anyone and anything you can. If one of yours is staggered put them in the backrow and have a warrior guard them.

Edit2) The damage attribute is determined by weapon type, the attack attributes are changed by class. Karen will need both skill and strength. You don't have to invest in the general thief tree at all. Actually you probably shouldn't. Use whirlwind against groups of enemies and the mark skill against beefier opponents. When she is wielding a spear she should be in the front row. You get an attack penalty in the back row with melee weapons.

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:51 pm
by ValHallen
Best tip:use Chambara, Draco and Apolishimeno (I think I named him wrong) in the back Row.
In the front row a warrior PC using Shield, Loren and Ramas.

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:53 pm
by pahldus
Early game before you have the whole party collected, use Loren, PC warrrior, and Ramas up front, and Draco, Dora and either Myrth or Apolimesho in the back.

Late game follow the make up ValHallen said. If you want Karen in your group put her in the back and just use bombs, or stick her in the front and use Spear attacks mentioned above. You can use Dora and Karen in place of one of the mages armed with bombs and it has much the same impact. I used and AoE strategy and even on hard the game wasn't really difficult.

On normal and easy mode, focus on speed and damage, especially AoE damage. Loren, Karen & Ramas are all frontliners that have AoE attacks and all the mages or thieves with bombs give good AoE damage. Also probably good to make sure all of your mages specialize in a different element for their spells and then level up their others, for example, have Draco go Fire, Chammie go Earth or Death, Apolo go Earth or Air, and Myrth go Water, then rotate them if you face an enemy with a particularly high resistance to a certain element. The weakest allies I found were Sauzer and Mesphit.

As for the fame quests in the towns, some are more difficult and if you don't have the full compliment of characters you will struggle. They are not even really necessary as you will earn more than enough gold, and I never saw a reason to grind the XP.

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:53 am
by un_mog
Thanks for the replies everyone. And yea... I didnt like Sauzer much... he needs a buff or the ability to do extra damage based off his gloves or something... monks tend to be weak in games. I dont have Mesphit yet. So far I like Draco a lot as he tends to be very good for some AOE, and Ive been prefering characters that do some kind of AOE. Since the main character, Im using Saren as a warrior, doesnt have much AOE Im a bit at a loss for him. On the one hand he does healing which is nice and has decent single target damage the way Im building him, but I mostly just keep him in the front to help tank and heal or help work down tougher targets. I started off originally as a thief, but as I said I greatly dislike the way the thief skills were... the warrior skills arent much better but hey at least I can get 15% more health with just 1 skill point. the others seem less useful. Maybe if the push that knocked people in the back row actually did some kind of damage, but really I wish they had some sort of AOE for a row or at least a line. Karen in the front row seems oddly against the idea of thieves being in the back but she has more HP than other thieves, and I dont particularly like having thieves in the backrow either since ranged damage seems very weak compared to the others. I figured ranged would focus more on doing single target high damage and let the melee fighters focus more on AOE, would have been balanced in my opinion. But even if I use AImed shot which is nice it then hurts the over all DPS as it means they cant attack again for a long time, so even then its only useful for picking off already injured targets. Which is a shame, since I prefer ranged over melee normally, just in this game its weak. My first character was a thief actually but it seemed so much weaker I actually restarted because I didnt wanna cripple myself and mages seem to do better damage in the back, and some can also heal too.

Anyway more specificyness to reply to, so I need higher attack to make sure Im doing my full damage to enemies, and defense helps reduce it. It reduces magic damage too? Or is that what the magic stat does? I was under the impression for whatever reason that magic was more like magic defense. Anyway, Im surprised there isnt a list of status effects, definitely should be. Since some of the moves like "Stun" which causes "confusion" and doesnt do anything at all to actually stun a person. I would figure it would make them lose a turn, or be slower to act. But then you have conditions like "Slow" which do that. So I figured "Frozen" would work like stun, but Ive yet to use any cold magic but from what you're saying I guess it just "burns them" like fire over time? After gearing Karen out with a bunch of "damage" enhancing gear though she is now doing decent damage so theres that at least. Actually I grinded a lot to get everyone some basic damage enhancing gear, like ravens bandana, mercenary sandals, or necklaces of strength. Weird that it also helps my fireballs and such do more damage too. Also too bad that it has no effect whatsoever on my healing effectiveness. :/ Definitely not how I would have done it, but doesnt detract from the game just have to figure out my way around it.

So uh... what does "Skip Mode" and "Auto Forward Time" do? And whats the best way to make money, or should I just keep doing the story and it gets easier to make money later? Can I ever get my fame higher than 50 for better discounts than 25%? Can I ever have more than 6 characters? I ask because it says something like "The current party limit is 6" and we can get sooooo many characters it seems. Also, since it seems we only get 15 skills, should I be avoiding certain ones that you didnt like, which ones were your favorites? Also for the skills that look like this...


Since I need the skills on either side to get the one in the middle, in this case Knock Down 1 and No Mercy 1 before it lets me get what I really want, Wide Slash 1, I was disheartened to find that I also had to have the second versions before it let me get Wide Slash 2 as well. So my question is, would I be able to get Wide Slash 3 at least without having to waste points on wide slash 1 and 2? Or do I need Wide Slash 1 and 2, Knockdown 1-3, and No Mercy 1-3 before it lets me get wideslash 3? Because if I can skip 1 and 2 thats two other skill points I can put elsewhere~ Sucks that it makes me have both of the other skills that I dont want, and for each level that I want Wide Slash. :/ Could at least have made Rally one of the ones Id have to get before Wideslash, as that was the only other skill I was really interested in.

Lastly, considering we only get 15 skill points, its a shame that so many seem downright inferior. Would have been nice to get some of the warrior/thief/mage specific skills naturally as we progressed, for free I mean, like in addition to the other stuff. That way we wouldnt have to pick and choose so much, since that only means a lot of stuff is just going to get passed off for better skills... and all the specific class skills seem superior. Its too bad we couldnt have made a more worthwhile decision for our starting character class. I mean, being able to pick hero or assassin or dual sword master would have been cooler than just fighter or thief... didnt even get the choice for mage in there... but all three of those "base" classes seem like garbage. Mage less so, because at least you get fair and evenly spread bonuses to max magica unlike the warrior which gets 15% max health the first time, but only +5% more for the last two. It makes me think maybe if the thief and warrior had more passive skills they'd be better and more appealing over all. And then theres the skills like Power Attack that just doesnt seem to get any better the more it progresses. Sure you do more damage the more you level it up, but you also get evenly more and more slower as well which directly counters it in terms of damage vs time. Seems a waste of points, So the warrior gets an HP passive skill that is front weighted with no further temptation to improve past level 1, a stun that doesnt stun. An aggro which seems passable already since it doesnt actually provide any debuff to the enemies it effects so not much tactical use other than making oneself a target, a knock back that does no damage but has a chance to "scare" someone [not sure exactly what that does since it isnt explained either] and a power attack that makes you hit harder, but also much less often which seems to almost completely negate the positive effect of it... and its still better than thief in my opinion. >.>

In short, Im mostly focusing on Sarens Hero Tree as it seems much more useful... and my warriors usually only have 1 point in Toughness. Am I missing something? Does toughness increase your max health by 15%, then 20% more, and 25% more like it progressively gives more and more health? Or... is it total? And it gives 15%, then 5% more, and another 5% more?

Edit= So I just got Mesphit, and if he is any indication it seems I was right, I dont need to unlock all the ones above a certain skill to unlock the final one. Ugh. Wasted some skill points it seems, live and learn~ I kinda wanna start over and do it "right" but I guess its not necessary. Wish I had a way to edit it though.

Also random thing I discovered, you can unequip, and even sell the monks fists [since its a weapon] for 999 gold, but he cant fight with no weapons equipped so its probably not worth it, even if you have no intention of ever using him again.

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:28 am
by ValHallen
Build the PC to be a healer, he is the most powerful healer. You need the heal, the ressurrection and the mana ability. When possible give him Jul's Necklace and enjoy the easy mode.

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:04 pm
by un_mog
Ill keep that in mind, Im about to fight Jul. I did find out a better way to make money than what I was doing though, fighting cyclops's, three of them pays out pretty good, and I usually get some rubys which sell for good too. Not bad exp either.

Also I made a list of all the conditions. Dunno if Im missing any, I decided to start writing them down as I ran across them, or purposefully try and cause one to take notes.

Staggered= Reduces attributes depending on difficulty, and exposes to advanced attacks.
Paralyzed= Can only defend and use items
Confused= Reduces magic by 25%
Scared= Reduces defense by 25%
Slowed= Reduces speed by 25%
Weakened= Reduces attack by 25%
Shattered= Reduces defense by 20% and lowers earth resistance while inflicting damage each turn.
Frozen= Reduces speed by 20% and lowers water resistance while inflicting damage each turn.
Burning= Reduces attack by 20% and lowers fire resistance while inflicting damage each turn.
Tired= Reduces magic by 20% and lowers air resistance while inflicting damage each turn.
Poisoned= Reduces critical hit by 50% and lowers dark resistance while inflicting damage each turn.

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:06 pm
by Troyen
I think that's all of them. If it helps, the conditions are pretty much the same when you play Seasons of the Wolf.
un_mog wrote:Edit= So I just got Mesphit, and if he is any indication it seems I was right, I dont need to unlock all the ones above a certain skill to unlock the final one. Ugh. Wasted some skill points it seems, live and learn~ I kinda wanna start over and do it "right" but I guess its not necessary. Wish I had a way to edit it though.
The arrows tell you which ones you need. Mesphit has a weird tree, wasn't ever sure if it was a bug or intentional (so you pick how much mana to spend, since he has some mana issues early on). I don't think Wide Slash I is a waste because it lets you use AoE on Loren early while you work on the ten levels to unlock Wide Slash III.

I think I rarely dipped into the base class trees. Having one or two element options on a thief can help when facing the elemental demons later when you run out of character-specific skills that seem interesting.

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:18 am
by P_Tigras
Loren and Draco are the two most deadly characters in the game. They both have very smooth power curves that keep them on top as they level up. For obvious reasons, Loren always goes in front and Draco always goes in back.

If you pick the right abilities for Rammus, his ability to do damage is very close to Loren's at high levels in the late game. This is easily screwed up however, so pick his abilities with care.

Saren/Elenor should always concentrate on healing, as he/she is the best healer, although if you pick warrior, he/she can also serve as an excellent tank/meat shield. Damage output will never compare to Loren's or Draco's, no matter what you do, even if your neglect your healing abilities. So don't neglect them.

Sauzer and the dog Trouble are easily the weakest characters due to a lack of magic items with buffs for them. And the higher in level you go, the more they fall behind.

Mesphit isn't a match for Rei, Dora or the mages in the rear row, and he's a glass canon in the front row. He does decent damage in the front row with his abilities which makes him better than Sauzer or Trouble, but he is still too easily and quickly killed.

After that you can fill out the rest of your party according to taste. I prefer mages so I usually filled my back row entirely with Chamby, Apolimesho & Myrth, but you can use archer thieves like Rei and Dora in the back row if you prefer. Given my play style, I prefer Rei, but others prefer Dora. I haven't played with Karen in the back row since she's been upgraded so I can't really compare her current capabilities with the others.

Karen used to be the weakest character, but I managed to talk Jack and Anima into upgrading her abilities. So now she's much more effective in both the front row and the rear row than she used to be.

Amukiki isn't bad, but neither are his abilities quite as good as those of the other front row warriors. If you're playing on easy or normal, it probably won't matter however. And if you mess up your choices for Rammus, you might even conclude that Amukiki is better.

Re: Hi, I'm new and had some questions about Loren

Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:55 am
by P_Tigras
Another piece of advice: When dealing with tough enemies, pay attention to their vulnerabilities, and try to hit them with the damage type they are most vulnerable against, and avoid dealing damage to which they have significant resistance. This may require purchasing additional weapons that deal different types of damage than the ones you already have. It's good to always have a nice selection available just in case they're needed, and the game does allow you to re-equip during combat. Mages shine at higher levels for this very reason since you don't need to re-equip them to change the damage they do. Just pick a different spell.