dungeons exploration

[Jaeger]

Regardless of how you want to handle dungeons, hopefully it will be more interesting than just fighting baddies.

[jack1974]

Well most encounters will be fights, but I'll try also to add some "random events"

[yayswords]

Just don't make it ten levels of trash tunnels. There's a fifteen level optional dungeon in Pillars of Eternity but it feels much less epic to me than Watcher's Keep (six levels) in BG2. The Endless Paths of Od Nua, as the fifteen-leveler is called, has the story spread rather thin and despite the awesome loot in there I skip it entirely on half my playthroughs because of the constant trash.

Oh, but make sure the endboss is the toughest in the game. The hardest encounter should be an optional one!

[jack1974]

By trash what do you mean exactly ? just mindless battles without story? or something else?
The main purpose of the catacombs was to provide some "grinding" like the Loren's tasks, something that people apparently really missed in SOTW.
In practice I'm trying to go back my steps and put what people loved of Loren in this game (well apart some romances since the main cast is only female).

[yayswords]

In the fifteen level dungeon most of the time I felt I was killing monsters either because they were (in no figurative sense) standing between me and the stairs to the next level, or because they possibly carried/guarded some good loot. Or for completionism... so yes pretty much mindless battles without story.

Also I'm skeptical that SotW lacked grinding. What it lacked was autoheal. Are you sure people wouldn't be content with the optional encounters in SotW if they didn't have to either spend money on taverns/potions or hate themselves enough to regen dance? Loren was infinite respawns, spam as much as you like. SotW was finite spawns (except the slime caverns or whatever), and I hope you brought potions or too much spare time.

Did these people who supposedly missed Loren's grinding in SotW regularly end act 2 with party members as high as level 18? Did they kill all merc spawns, exiting and entering areas to trigger each ambush, rerolling each to get 6 (3 for Lugal) mobs? Did they always pick fights with their fellow gladiators, did they go for 3war/3wiz lizard fights in the steam tunnels? If so I must meet these fellow regen dancers, or maybe absolutely monstrous potion chuggers. The thing is though, I think I was pretty alone in my exp milking, minimal expense playstyle, and those who tried to grind without using my approach just ran out of steam. Autoheal could have made that difference for them.

(If any of the people who hold the opinion that SotW lacked grinding are reading this, please join in)

Just offering a perspective anyway, not trying to challenge the design philosophy. But you haven't tried finite spawns and autoheal yet

[jack1974]

Well not "grinding" indeed but UNLIMITED grinding As you said there was no autoheal, so they couldn't just fight mindless battles (the town tasks) without any worry... that wouldn't work.
But I just said "mindless battles"? that's my point, some people just wanted to fight without thinking, just to raise their levels / make more gold so the next plot point would be easy. That was my goal with the dungeon/catacomb too, provide a way to fight so when they reach the next plot point in the story the battle would be easier.

It's nothing new: I had this in PS1 (all the map battles) and in Loren (the city tasks).

I know that is better a story integrated with battles and I'll add some events in the dungeon on that regard, no worries, but the point is that this game wasn't even supposed to have RPG fights at all, and considering I have Roger Steel and Loren 2 to do next year (maybe!) I really don't want to get burned out again. That is my main fear

The idea was also that the party at beginning of story knows already where their mother is (not the exact place, but the Raul's fortress) and they only need to gather info on how to enter it, and keep robbing rich people to make enough money to buy the best gear (and possibly enough Fame so that they could start a revolt against the evil tyrant).

So the game doesn't have a specific linear plot, but you can do "robbery missions" until certain values reached XYZ, at that point you would unlock the final part. This while doing the romances of course.

[jack1974]

I've changed to something more "modular", similar to isometric tiles but 2d, so I can build very different levels, and also display the player current position and already explored rooms in a better way (the dungeon "art" is mine obviously )
And I had an idea about adding a story to the dungeon, beside some random events will also write a simple storyline so that the final boss will reveal everything. I'll write it first myself and then have one of my writers fix it, so should be quick to do it.

[yayswords]

Okay yeah, I realized a bit after I posted that, that the SotW grinding options aren't start when you want and stop when you want. Anyway, is honor the new fame?

[jack1974]

Yes in practice is an "alternative currency", spending it you can get different kind of item sets. If someone has a better suggestion I'm all ears

[yayswords]

How is it different from gold?