computer games forum

Franka wrote: Of course you shouldn't expect a breakaway hit, but I'm not sure what would be the point in aiming for something average. You'd still need to do crazy amount of work in programming, bug fixing and balancing, especially if creating something that should be playable for a long time, and we know how burned out you got the last time.

Well the aim wouldn't be "average", but small. Something I could sell for under $10 for example as for the amount of programming, yes it could be, though if I reuse SOTW battle system a good amount of work is done. What really burned me out of SOTW was the story length+battles: each encounter had specific rules/enemies/situation.

Franka wrote: On the other hand, if you feel you have the extra time, and won't burn out, I guess the point is it'll pay some bills, and you should just do it instead of beating around the bush.

Yeah that is the point, though of course I am not sure myself if would be worth it or not Now I feel less burned out at least!

Troyen wrote:Behold: Loren the Amazon Queen, the empire simulator.

You might not believe it, but originally Heileen was to be a fairy Queen town-building sim then I found about the visual novel stuff and...

jack1974 wrote:Well the aim wouldn't be "average", but small.

To go into more detail, when I sit down and sketch out games I'll never make and stories I'll never finish writing (see, this is why you're a professional ), I always want to feel like what I'm doing is going to be revolutionary. Even when I know that the result will be different, I want to have that feeling that this will change the market and people will sing my praises. If I don't have that (when starting out, before reality sets in), I might as well sit in a cubicle and program software for BigSoulless Inc. or jump on the shovelware wagon.

And then we have people like Jayenkai, who is so overflowing with ideas that he makes a new game every week (or tries to).

Haha well I think there's a middle way between making quick shovelware and epic revolutionary games
Take Banished. It's revolutionary ? no, is a town building sim in practice. Yet it was a huge success (I happen to know even that indie even if not as well as Ryan). Of course that game is 3D, so nothing I can do myself, was just to make an example

It doesn't even have to be revolutionary as long as it's good. There's a number of town simulation games or fantasy kingdom simulation games, for example, but most of them feel...incomplete somehow. Not quite as entertaining as they should be.

jack1974 wrote:Haha well I think there's a middle way between making quick shovelware and epic revolutionary games

Yes! I think a middle ground is definitely workable.

To me, I will be a little hesitant in taking the use of the word "shovelware" seriously. These days, it's just a code word for "How dare someone like/make a game that I don't!" For example, there are many who claim all Visual Novels are "shovelware". Is that true? Of course not! I can't speak for anyone else, but I have enjoyed a wide variety of games, from casual lunch break games, middle of the line games, to the triple AAA stuff.

So, I guess I have a bigger capacity of appreciation for what they are. Not games are for all audiences, certainly. Different play for different strokes and different folks. I feel it would be nice if people could ignore what they don't like, and just go for what they like, instead of an insistence towards a 1-track market!

Ah, but I want to start out with something intended to be revolutionary. The middle ground comes when you have to compromise your revolutionary game with reality. Just don't tell too many people how amazing your game is going to be before you meet reality. Especially if running a Kickstarter. Or if your name is Peter Molyneaux.

But I digress...

I put no in because Story/romance were not split apart from each other.

It was the story of Loren that got me interested in this group's work, so I doubt I could find myself playing the games without it. And the Heileen games W/O story would pretty much well not exist.

I suppose I should say I can't see myself paying the same amount as I did for the RPG games. Loren,Heileen, Stronghold, and SOTW have all taken at least 24 hours for me to complete the way I want to. I see that as a well placed investment for entertainment. I can play games w/o plot but they tend to be about 10 hr runs for me at best.

Yes you're right. It's what other people, including some of my writers (without any interest!) and other developer friends said. They all said that what makes my games rather unique is the story and the focus on romance (and sometimes to sexy stuff) so I would be a bit crazy to trying to change this.
And like you said, a pure-gameplay game if is good can keep you busy for hours, but if you don't like it much can be much shorter than a game with stories of 100-200k words and multiple paths/endings

Put it like this, for me the story would have to be compelling see Life is Strange (Although it has a hint of romance, but it seems to more that it is more teen angst more than anything :p) http://www.lifeisstrange.com/index.php . That game literally has me chomping at the bit for the next episode! (As a slight aside I'll never buy episodic content EVER again, for the simple reason I do not want to wait another 6 months to get end >.>. I'll just wait till it all released and save money since it will be in bargain bin by that time and then there is no waiting for the ending(s) XD)

Hehe I plan to get that one too, but as you said I'm not buying anything episodic unless it's complete. That's why I'm waiting to buy any Telltale game for example. And also why I won't make any episodic game myself either