feedback wanted!

[DunKalar]

Maybe it would make sense to have two versions depending if you play as male or female, like I do with my dating sim ?
(still thinking about it and throwing ideas... even if ultimately I'll value mostly Aleema's opinion since she has to write it).

I think this is a better approach than splitting the content in two parts since you can tell the whole story without the need for cliff hangers or the problem of integrating people like Nook or Breza in the second half (which will lead to a hell of a ride in romancing conpared to romances that you prolonged from the first part). And since the urge to create mile stones in the game that flawlessly connect to the next game parts would be gone, your decision/romancing tree is much slender (and thus less writing/coding to do) without people feeling that something is amiss.

And to quote some older post, it is Loren 2, not the Love Boat If you have three parts (Loren 1, Loren 2.1, Loren 2.2) with different romances each, it kinga gets the feeling of a romancing simulation and not an epic rpg .

[Aleema]

I don't like the idea of Saren vs Elenor for several reasons. Are we supposed to assume that both characters traveled down the exact same path to glory in the original game, both becoming second-in-command to Loren? And if not, how do we decide who is the "real" Player Character? Will we erase history from both of them, start them over as simple slaves again? And if we're really going to suspend disbelief that they both are the Player's Character, they start with the same obstacles and they travel down a very similar plotline, why are we putting them in two different games? I've always assumed Saren and Elenor were the same possible identity. It's cute to think if you chose one, the other is still out there, but how do we actually account for that? Do we have to write two totally different approaches to the game, one if you're second-in-command to Loren and the other if you're a recently freed slave? (Because I'm sure the way they would operate would be vastly different, not to mention their relationships with the old party members.)

What I'm saying is that it opens up a can of worms.

However, I do see the appeal in having two different protagonists for two different games, to prevent the clean restart and romance problem. It would save us a bunch of headaches. But perhaps that second protagonist could be someone other than Saren or Elenor ...

[jack1974]

The problem is that as you know, there are already all the romance CGs done, so doesn't matter for this problem. I mean, after Loren 2 we can stop using Elenor/Saren (I'd be happy to avoid all this previous romances thing). But still the original problem of this thread stands. Anyway, maybe the solution is to just do like the previous game, and maybe have different DLC with new main plot and new characters to romance
The mess with the previous game was because there were characters that could join/die (Mesphit) and influence the endings (Zeal/Morte/etc). But if each DLC is a separate new main quest from the storyline, that wouldn't be a problem at all.

[DunKalar]

Yea I know what you mean. It is the same problem BioWare has with Dragon Age Inguisition where they have to tie up ends that just do not fit together logically.

Nevertheless, I think there will be many disappointed players if you shift appreciated consorts into the second half of the game and let them wait another year. And I don't think that it will be a logical problem to split the game into gender dependend games. It is clear that Saren / Elenor are the same entity. But I doubt that there will be great holes in the plot. Most of your players already finished Loren 1 and know the story told by the game. You can do a small intro like "the following story assums that the hero saren/the heroine elenor helped Loren to defeat fost and rose to glory from a past as slave to the amazon princess." and then the story around saren/elenor (who ever you chose) starts. Don't think this is a great problem. And I bet your customers will appreeciate this solution more than transfering companions from the first game to the second half of the game.


Another solution might be, that you include Saren / Elenor as a minor NPC who helped in the military but did never shine as the other "personality" for some reasons. Or you add them into the party like in SOTW but that might just twist the line like Aleema said.

[josipa24]

I don't know, I kinda always thought that Saren/Elenor existed in alternate universes or sth and they were both the 'real pc', they just couldn't share the same space, if that makes sense.

So I also like the idea of splitting the game based on gender. To be honest, it's mostly because it would suit my tastes and playstyle and I could just get my lady protagonist and Gx romances without buying another PC I'd never use. But also, I don't really see the problem with suspension of disbelief over Saren's/Elenor's probable similar journey in this case - they have already had a really similar plotline in the first game. The story felt different and was altered because of your actions - choosing how you interacted with the characters, they way your companions talked to you sometimes, the order in which you did your quests when possible etc. That was enough for me.

[Anima_]

I can think of two additional alternatives.
The first is to simply take several romances out of the game but leave the hooks for them in the script. That way they can be added in an Add On or as DLC. Not sure how much this would actually reduce the workload.

The second is to separate the romances into two parts as well. It wouldn't reduce the number of romances but their volume. So you would continue a romance from the first chapter in the second.

Not sure how much either would help, but I do think that making it a single game would be very risky.

The framework wouldn't need that much additional work either way, just like Aleema already said.

[jack1974]

The second is to separate the romances into two parts as well. It wouldn't reduce the number of romances but their volume. So you would continue a romance from the first chapter in the second.

The problem with this is that people would expect a romance CG, but if the romances continues in the second part, then we'd need two romance CGs Since there are already tons (more than every other game I've ever made) that is not possible.

I emailed Aleema an idea (which has spoilers so I cannot post here). But in practice the player still plays as Saren/Elenor, but there are two parallel storylines, and the player must choose which group of people to join. They would happen in the same time, but in different places. This solves the problem that "second game should take place after first game events". They happen at same time, and player can play as Elenor/Saren and decide to play the first story (which would involve Jul) or the second story (which would involve Loren). And since they happen in parallel, there's not anymore the problem of "yes but why in the second game you can't continue/break romance with Mr/Ms XZY!?"

[P_Tigras]

I'm speaking only for myself here. Jack may see it as going from 16 to 12, but I see it as going from 2 to 1, as there are only two characters, one new, one old, in part 1 (Chamby, Jul) whose romances interest me, and now I'm hearing that one of them must go. This is highly disappointing to me. I thus have a decided preference for Anima_'s proposed alternatives. And if you absolutely have to remove somone, and don't intend to add them back into part 1 later, than please remove someone other than Chamby or Jul.

[ValHallen]

I'm speaking only for myself here. Jack may see it as going from 16 to 12, but I see it as going from 2 to 1, as there are only two characters in part 1 (Chamby, Jul) whose romances interest me, and now I'm hearing that one of them must go. This is highly disappointing to me. I thus have a decided preference for Anima_'s proposed alternatives.

I feel the same, Chamby and Loren are my favorite from the first game and Jul is the only new interesting character to me. So my hype for the game is very low noe...
And with 24 romance, I fear the second game will have the same problem that the first game had, If you dont romance the character you dont get to know them well. So I dont see why i should get the first game

[P_Tigras]

Jul being romancable in the 2nd game feels better pacing-wise. Having her go from villain to lover is a difficult transition and shouldn't be rushed. At least, that's my opinion. Feel free to convince me otherwise!

I fully expect the transition for the Jul romance to be difficult, nevertheless the groundwork for the romance still needs to be set up in part 1. Succubi are expert at using their sexuality to gain what they want, and I'd be highly surprised if Jul didn't try to use her sexuality in an attempt to gain her freedom, food, and/or slaves from Day 1. How the protagonist deals with her flirtations and her attempts to gain control by inflaming lust will do a lot to set up the tenor of their romance. Usually, feelings come before sex. With Jul on the other hand things needn't follow the usual order, although the sex would likely be safer if they did. But who says the player has to play it safe? Living dangerously can be a lot more fun, especially if you're cunning or tough enough to survive... And who says that she can't stay tied up while they do it?

Should you decide to move a bi female, than I strongly suggest Selith instead. She's something of an experiment with no established fan base. The smaller the cast of romance interests, the more important it is to include characters that have the widest possible appeal. And Jul not only has an existing fan base, but she'd also motivate more impulse buys than Selith with her scaly green skin.