different body sizes (was Loren 2 colored camp thread)

[kadakithis]

No, but it is much more common to see a fat person reach the olympics than it is a body builder. My point isn't that fat people are the pinnacle of Health. Its that it isn't the be all end all of health. And a vast number of people who go to the olympics won't ever look like a body builder. My point is that 1) the original amazon wasn't unrealistic 2) body building is unhealthy and that saying a body builder is in more shape than a fat person is ignoring health issues.

This guy is a World class footbal/soccer player, the cardio sport if ever there was one.



I'm saying is look at most of the athletes that do hammerthrow or other types and they usually look a bit big, because there are limited options to having giant muscles. I will lay you ten to one those ladies up there are healthier than most world class body builders. Take away drugs and you have people who take diaretics, and use dehydration as a technique, or eat way too little, because that is what it takes to gain the muscle necessary but not the fat that comes with it. Body building is fairly new.

And thats why strong people in history were also portrayed a bit Large and fat. Whether Fictional, Like Porthos of the Musketeers, or real like Lois Cyr. Health has much less to do with weight than people not liking how it looks. In reality it is totally possible to be fat and healthy.

[P_Tigras]

I just saw this and thought is relevant

last fight is super impressive, a huge muscular black man, KOed by the fat man!

"Big Country" Roy Nelson lacks speed and his skill is only midling at best, but he has an abundance of knock-out power, and is able to absorb quite a bit of punishment himself. So while he regularly loses to the top guys, all it takes is one mistake for him to knock someone out. That's why he tends to be considered one of the gate-keepers in the UFC heavyweight division. If you want to get into the top 10, you need to get past Roy. If you want to watch him get knocked out by a faster, more highly skilled, less overweight man, watch his fight against Mark Hunt. Mark Hunt is far from chiseled himself, but he doesn't have Roy's gut slowing him down or tiring him out either.

[kadakithis]

See thats my point. Even if we show people who went pro and did well or won championships or even won gold, and stated one of the best in the world, somehow their weight must come into it. Because being fat just can't be thought of as acceptable. There was one olympic athlete who was chubbier and won Bronze, the announcers and reporters blamed her weight, as if being the third in the world her weight must still be a major factor and something to blame.

You just saw Roy beat on several men more cut than himself. But if he loses at all it must be his gut. He can't be a middling boxer he has to be a middling boxer due to weight. In fact , above is a star Soccer Athlete, who has a bit of a gut. He does amazing. The point being if the olympics are to be concerned, sometimes star athletes are fat. Ordinary people as long as they get excercize can be fat and healthy it isn't oxymoronic.

[P_Tigras]

I wouldn't say Roy does amazing. He's a big strong guy and that gets him far against those who don't have the speed and skill to get out of his way. He's certainly knocked out some bodybuilder types who are more chiseled than he is, but bodybuilders are often slow themselves. And being a chiseled bodybuilder doesn't make one a master, or even necessarily competent, in the martial-arts. I'm not defending bodybuilders. I'm simply pointing out that the extra pounds Roy has slow him down, and cause him to tire out earlier than he would otherwise. I've watched lots of Roy's fights over the years, it's pretty obvious. He's a competent puncher with knockout power, but not an amazing fighter. He's a gatekeeper, not a contender.

[P_Tigras]

Let me just add that a heavier mass requires a greater force to accelerate it the same amount. This is simple first semester physics. Muscle mass, unlike fat mass, can increase the human body's ability to generate the force needed to accelerate any added weight. So that's why muscle mass increases are considered good, and fat mass increases are considered bad.

That said, bodybuilders, unlike athletes, tend to train for appearance not speed, so they don't tend to get any faster. While increased muscle mass can increase speed, whether or not it actually does depends on how it is trained.

While I agree that it isn't necessary to be "chiseled" to be championship level in the martial-arts, just look at Mark Hunt, I disagree that a gut the size of Roy's isn't a disadvantage. It is.

[kadakithis]

If speed is the most important thing, people being tall also decreases speed. Why many olympic runners are on the short side. The truth is certain body types lend themselves to different acts. But Football players, wrestlers, hammerthrowers, and many things that lend themselves to various sports and strength are healthy and fine. Fat hasn't held them back and there are many top athletes that are fat and are very healthy and top in their field.

The truth is if you are building lots of muscle you also tend to build fat, its natural and healthy, the unhealthy part comes from when you stop exercising as much but have the same habits. People who sit on the coach and have the same habits are going to be unhealthy. But many studies show it is the lack of movement and excercize that is bad for you, not the weight itself. In fact a coach potato has the same health problems that most assign to fatness while excercizing even a bit can negate those side effects completely.

But my original point was mostly, body building is unhealthy unless done very particularly. While nearly all side effects of being fat is reduced with excercize (which doesn't always reduce fat)

[Jaeger]

Actually, being taller helps with sprinting since longer legs can cover more distance in fewer strides. Michael Johnson, Usain Bolt, and Marie-Jose Perec are not exactly short people. There are shorter runners, but they usually have a higher stride frequency to make up for shorter strides.

When it comes to long distance running, endurance becomes more important than speed. It's in these events where you will see shorter athletes, but it has much more to do with weight than height.

[kadakithis]

Yes I did mean for long distance, but we are talking two different speeds. My point being that even a healthy weight of a tall person takes away from the endurance of a long distance runner. Different types of bodies for different kinds of sports, to label some unhealthy for no reason other than common belief is not fair or good.

That was my point, although my original point was definitely, being fat and working out is 1) not uncommon and 2) healthier than body building.

[P_Tigras]

Tall people are not slower than short people. I've known some explosively fast tall people in my time, and when it comes to running, and swimming, tall people have an advantage, since they have a longer stride/stroke. There are some sports like horse racing however where it's better to be as light as possible, and shorter people are usually lighter than taller people. In the martial-arts it's more of a wash. Having a longer reach can be an advantage, but it's possible for a shorter fighter to get in close and jam up a taller fighter's arms and legs if he knows what he's doing, and that makes things more even.

[kadakithis]

Agreed?