SOTW 0.8.24.18 - Second Act Beta!

[jack1974]

strange, only one shop displays the fame correctly:

Hm really weird. Send saves please, want to check I don't know how could happen, seems like the shop weren't updated to use the Fame from the right Season, but I am looking at the code right now and should work

I sorted my driver problem but the low FPS is still there. Mind you though it was worse before you made the combat log change and I had a long fight. This is just "a little slow" all the time. The thing is, given that my software didn't actually check for drivers since early April, I've run act one (pro FPS) and act two (low FPS) with the same drivers, so yeah...

OK, to make this second act/build I actually updated Ren'Py, so might be that the cause. I'll ask the coder. Here I didn't notice any difference, but I have an Ati, I should check on my other PC with an nVidia card.

Update on Chalassa's damage: I guess it's just a matter of a multiplier cap because bigger [ranged] weapons help, but all the +attack I pump into her just goes to waste. I'm not friends with multiplier caps, for the record.

Yes, exactly you always max the damage with her, that's why was always displaying same damage against different opponents. That's what happens in Nightmare mode The extra attack "goes to waste" against those low HP enemies, but against bosses with more HP they'll matter

More than likely you have a noted this missing imgage: (lol not reading through 20 pages lol)

I actually missed that, thanks

First fight with skeletons says Chalassa is required but she volunteered to stay at the arena.

Oops, is a problem of a previous condition that isn't cleared, will check now.

I see you've added the trait changes, but they don't seem to be retroactive. Riley had the +MP trait before you changed it. He no longer meets the requirements for it, yet he has 206 mana. Without the trait there's no way his mana shouldn't be a multiple of 5.

Yes, unfortunately if you already unlocked the traits, you have it sooner than expected

When I leave for the bathhouse and the Dingirran asks where we think we're going, I get the impression he's mad because I'm a slave walking away from the arena without permission or something. I didn't quite feel like I had walked anywhere since the background didn't change. (omg i said something about plot)

True will do a BG change

Okay, and this is srs. Jack, I get the feeling, the very very distinct feeling, that you are penalizing mage damage in the steam tunnels too. Which onehander is my druid supposed to use in place of her staff?

Ah right. Need to check. Two handed weapons, but using mages/magic attacks you shouldn't get the penalty

[yayswords]

So you're saying Chalassa should be able to get a higher multiplier on bosses? Those mobs didn't have the same health either you know, and yet not a single point of damage difference.

:DD Why do I get a discount at the northern tavern? I caused a fukin brawl there and wasn't even allowed in for a while. The others charge me full price.

Skeletons feel weak by the way. My ranger has more magic than the mages. My druid has twice the defense of the warriors. Riley nearly has the same attack as the archer. This can't be right.

Lorecrime! Riley: "What on earth are you talking about?" The planet is called Aravorn, not Earth.

One random monster pack is like 20 xp per member for a full party. Quests are 1k. Pretty sure the difference wasn't this large in act one.

[jack1974]

So you're saying Chalassa should be able to get a higher multiplier on bosses? Those mobs didn't have the same health either you know, and yet not a single point of damage difference.

I don't know at this point. I know that she does the most damage per weapon with that insane attack value you have. Better weapon=more damage. Makes sense to me.
I'm seriously thinking to go back to the old Planet Stronghold system on next RPG. Attack 20 - Defense / Armor 10 = 10 dmg. Stop. Plain simple. Much easier and would avoid thousands tweaks!

:DD Why do I get a discount at the northern tavern? I caused a fukin brawl there and wasn't even allowed in for a while. The others charge me full price.

Like in real life, there isn't a "standard price". Each tavern has different prices and also restores different amounts if you check.

Skeletons feel weak by the way. My ranger has more magic than the mages. My druid has twice the defense of the warriors. Riley nearly has the same attack as the archer. This can't be right.

Yes skeletons were in act1 so to balance there it was screwed here. I'll replace them with "Skeleton V2" (same images/skills but different stats).

One random monster pack is like 20 xp per member for a full party. Quests are 1k. Pretty sure the difference wasn't this large in act one.

Because you had 3 characters, so in act1 you would get 60xp instead. But anyway I had lower XP on quests initially, but then I noticed that the leveling was going too slow, so I raised that since was the easiest way without "losing control". I know quests are done so is easier to increase their XP rather than monsters

[jack1974]

Yes I checked, all fine. There's a 2.0 multiplier damage cap. Say your weapons 1:1 damage is 16, you get 32 (the x2 multiplier) against all enemies because your attack is so much higher than their defenses. The thing is you shouldn't be able to hit that easily, especially with melee. So in practice: Chalassa is overpowered She is supposed to be strong of course but maybe I've exaggerated a bit! Will probably reduce her starting attributes a bit!

[yayswords]

I recall suggesting something like:

Same attack and defense: Normal damage
25% higher attack: 25% higher damage (+25% attack for +25% damage)
75% higher attack: 50% higher damage (another +50% attack for another +25% damage)
150% higher attack: 75% higher damage (another +75% attack for another +25% damage)
300% higher attack: Double damage (another +150% attack attack for another +25% damage)

You get the idea, it becomes increasingly more expensive to improve your damage, without there being a definite cap anywhere. You can always pursue more damage, but you will give up more and more for it. That way I can choose where to stop. Right now you are choosing for me.

The thing is you shouldn't be able to hit that easily, especially with melee. So in practice: Chalassa is overpowered

Yes I reach it easily. I can buff Chalassa with Acrobatics, Rally and Protect, but she never needs all three to hit damage cap. However the damage at the cap isn't particularly thrilling...

Maybe if I used that capped damage with No Escapes but I don't have it.

I spent too long on this post. What was my plan for this battle? Vaelis does what? Tell me

[jack1974]

Well it really works like that in practice. It's proportional, 1:1 defense normal damage, and then progressively higher. 111 attack vs 32 defense is indeed 300% the difference
The thing I wanted to achieve with Chalassa is different from the other classes: she can use only daggers or short swords, so they have less dmg than say normal broadswords (or 2h weapons of course). BUT she is much faster, so she can hit more often, and also because of her buffs can reach higher attack. But after seeing your screenshots I realized is too easy, as you say enough to stack Acrobatics, Rally and Protect, and she's invincible.
So I need to tweak her character a bit. Combat code is fine

[yayswords]

Don't get so caught up on the specific numbers obviously I don't wanna have to have quadruple the attack to do double damage. What I want is to always get SOME damage for more attack, even if the benefits shrink and shrink. I wanna decide when it's no longer worth giving up other stats for more damage. Kind of how attributes are working already. Sure your favorite stat hits 20 quickly, but after that, are you gonna keep pumping it at half efficiency or get some secondary ones?

Also Krimm's Finishing Blow is kinda funny. It's very hard to bring a monster to that sweet spot where it's better than a normal attack. The damage sucks until like 1/3 mob HP, at which point it might do more damage than a normal attack, but still less damage/delay. And then you bring it a little lower and you get this, which is hilarious to see but obviously a normal attack would do the job again.

P.S. Chalassa's flashback: I skipped all 5 guards yet only one joined the battle. Happened when I skipped 2 or 3 too. Plus those that join are in the backrow sucking anyway. Oh and it's really poor wording that Chalassa says it will cost her "Stamina Points" to assassinate guards. She's talking to the twin, not the player.

[fabulaparva]

wrote:
Okay, and this is srs. Jack, I get the feeling, the very very distinct feeling, that you are penalizing mage damage in the steam tunnels too. Which onehander is my druid supposed to use in place of her staff?

Ah right. Need to check. Two handed weapons, but using mages/magic attacks you shouldn't get the penalty

I think I definitely noticed this as well on magic bolts and most likely also on my druid's elemental nukes. None of my mages were resurrected in there, so I didn't get to compare the power before and after and see if the 2H-penalty vanished from them, too, like it did vanish from Krimm.

I finished Act II in NM-mode, but I must've missed some kills, quests or areas, as most of my chars were left on level 12 at the end, instead of somewhere between 13 and the maximum of 14.
I didn't see any bonuses for completing all the quests. My logbook shows *9* new completed quests. The tileset counter shows that there should be 8 on the area.
Also, just before I return to the arena for the last time, it shows that I've found 9/12 areas. So something's not adding up if I've done 9 quests but haven't found 3 areas.

In general, I think that the difficulty was good for NM-mode. Some individual fights felt a bit over the top. Most difficult ones were:
+ The lizardmen in the sewers (especially if one happened to get 3 mages at the same time)
+ Assassin boss (I read that the arena slaves aggression-level was lowered after I got through that part and the assassin boss, so this might be fine now )
+ Kiduu -fighters... considering that it's just the start of the act, when you have the luck of getting 6 of them
+ Getting out of the Lugal area in the beginning of the act, if you repeatedly counter 3 of them

Final boss fight was on the easy side. Not sure if I should blame Jariel or Rowinda for that.

There were some fights that might've benefitted or suffered from bugs, though. Like the fact that Krimm got all her powers back in the tunnels after a resurrection...but then again if the mages were penalized too... hard to judge. Also, one could cheat with the bombs since they can be thrown at the back row again....which is a bug.


Question about Chalassa's personal quest: How does the number of guards you kill affect the number of guards joining the fight in the end? I only left 1 alive, but still 3 of those romanced-to-death guards joined the fight.

And...an anatomical question: Why do all the male elves have nipples but the Dingirran males (Riley & master of the pits) don't?

I'll post some general feedback on the skills a bit later. Should I put it here or in the skills thread?

[yayswords]

Just make a new thread for skills, our 9001 page threads probably look imposing for some people and I don't even remember what we talked about in the old one. Probably half of it was about Invigorating Prayer.

[jack1974]

Yes but you're talking about NORMAL ATTACKS! that's the point reaching x2 multiplier with those shouldn't be actually easy at all. With special skills/attacks, OK. If you could do more than x2 with normal attacks... would screw up everything.
The combat code is fine and I'm not touching that ever again. Also because wouldn't be possible, I would had to rebalance act1 again, and game would never be out, etc etc as you know. So I can tweak the characters or the enemies if needed. I've already reduced Chalassa skills now, is too powerful honestly.
And you say giving up adding attack. Yes maybe in this act. If in act3 enemies have 100 defense? then it wouldn't be wasted.

Krimm's finishing blow can use some tweaking too as well, I didn't check it much. Going to do more tests. At the end (when target has low HP) yes, it should always be fun to see though