Let's talk about traits

[jack1974]

Hmm actually I checked and the attack, defense etc bonuses are applied to the TOTAL and not to the base

[fabulaparva]

I don't actually mind the bonuses as they are now, at all, even if they would stay small. I like the trait idea very much and I hope you won't be trashing it completely just because it would take too much time to make it perfect for SotW or everybody would favour Constitution. I'd rather have it there as it is than see it gone. My issue with the current system lies with the required distribution of skill points, when they don't make sense to me, as I think is the case in Defender requiring Agility. For example, Defender & Arcane could still give the 15% bonus to defense & elemental resistances, or even a smaller bonus (10%) but require 25 Constitution & 40 Skill for Defender and 25 & 30 Skill & Arcane for Elementalist. Of course, I just pulled these numbers out from a ratman's hat and they would require tweaking.

[jack1974]

Yes the traits probably should be tweaked so they make the "most sense" for the class. Defense associated with Agility probably not a good idea, since Defense is probably mostly used by "tanks" could be Skill.

[Troyen]

Could you just change toughness into a flat +HP amount? Something like +50HP to make it a notable bonus, but without being too much. That would also help with Defender. Just give +25 defense or something (which is as good as a chest armor slot), and you don't have the weak base defense % problem.

I'm not sure traits need to be active abilities. There are already a lot of abilities to choose from, and that would make them indistinguishable from skills.

[jack1974]

Ah true lol, I didn't even consider fixed amounts. This way, the impact is not related to the current party abilities, but it can still be very noticeable like the examples you made. I think will go with this!

[fabulaparva]

^^I don't think that the set bonus for Defense, WIllpower and Toughness would be a bad idea instead of the 15%-increase... Not sure if it should require 50 points then, though, for the primary Skill.


Just trying to keep track of it all... So I think this is how it is now:


This is how the points could be distributed, eg.

Changes bolded. I didn't touch the actual point amounts. This is heavier on the Skill-side, but as the attribute is described: "Skill increases your character's ability to perform advanced techniques in battle," I don't think it matters if Skill would be given more weight in determining the Traits. To make the dual-wield trait more lucrative, I'd suggest having the offhand weapon do 100% dmg as well.

EDIT: Corrected Archwizard's switched values

[Anima_]

Of course this also begs the question if percentage based healing is still a good idea. If instead of scaling with the targets HP it would scale with the casters magic things would be different as well. Though that might be more for the next games instead of this one.

[jack1974]

Yes, initially I was using fixed values, but then I changed it during the first testing stages (don't remember exactly why).
I can't change this now, however I could put "heal caps" or even SP caps, even if I'm sure some people wouldn't like it
I agree about the 100% offhand damage, that way would be a powerful trait

[Troyen]

Of course this also begs the question if percentage based healing is still a good idea. If instead of scaling with the targets HP it would scale with the casters magic things would be different as well. Though that might be more for the next games instead of this one.

This would be something interesting to try in a future game. If you just make it a static amount, then when your health is significantly larger than the biggest heal you can toss out (and enemies are doing proportionally more damage), it just drives you to stack regeneration even more and ignore the healing spells. But, by investing into arcane to increase your healing amount, you can a symmetry with how your damage spells get more powerful. Arcane becomes the true "strengthen your magic" stat.

[yayswords]

I don't like fixed amount traits or fixed amount anything else. Fixed amounts don't scale. Then again I suppose attributes don't either.

As for heals not being %-based, yes I agree, but I definitely considered that "too muck work to rebalance" so it's on the Loren 2 list.

But I really think we need to get class-specific with the traits. I've been working on lists using these traits: Bonus crit (and not just 5%), bonus attack, bonus defense, bonus magic, bonus magic resistance, bonus physical resistance, bonus health, bonus speed, bonus threshold, bonus mana.

Bonus defense, for example, would be easily unlocked by mages, middle ground for thieves and expensive for warriors. The thief tree currently looks like this:

Expensive
Bonus attack
Bonus crit

Average
Bonus speed
Bonus health
Bonus threshold
Bonus defense

Cheap
Bonus physical resistance
Bonus magic resistance
Bonus mana

Warrior could look somewhat the same. I'd make defense expensive, not sure what to do about bonus crit though, could make it average and give a lower %. But for mages we gotta get rid of bonus attack, bonus crit and probably also bonus magic resistance. I wouldn't know where to put it if I kept it, thematically it should be expensive (expensive traits augment stats that are typically already high), but I don't know that anyone would want it at all lol. Meanwhile the only thing we could add is bonus magic. I wouldn't want something like "bonus regen", as ideally all classes use their abilities, and a lack of resource management is not thematic to mages anyway. Maybe bonus attack since spells apparently can be dodged but I'd rather that possibility didn't exist.

You might have noticed I haven't included the dual wield trait anywhere. I suppose it could be in, but bear in mind that it's the only trait that actually changes the way you play. If we're keeping it, it needs more affordable requirements though, 'cause whoever takes it needs to be able to handle being in the front row. Also it can be a huge trap. You gotta figure out for yourself or check these forums to know that Chalassa's abilities use her bow (Roulette <3). I could imagine someone working hard to get this trait (right now you gotta work hard for it at least) and then come here and say it's bugged and be very disappointed to learn the truth.