how the heck to you beat deceit

[fabulaparva]

Jack, by doing that you are turning the Easy-mode even more into a non-RPG and into a sole VN, which I thought you weren't planning to do. And also, after that, there's nothing "earning" left in Chalassa's happy ending, It's all your decision, obviously, so I'll shut up.

Anyway, managed to beat him. The key was to throw heavy explosive bombs with Althea (&Jariel), and trying to inflict as many DoTs as possible on him, since both Shattered and Burned will give him -33hp per turn, which turned to be crucial in my trial. Also, Rowinda's candy was heavily used towards the end to deal with the constant paralysis. I didn't use Krimm. Placed Rowinda, Shea, Jariel in the front. Althea, Riley, Vaelis in the back. This party was hugely problematic for this type of a fight. I think that in RPGs, one usually need to take into consideration both the capability to do high singular enemy dmg as well as some row damage. ...

Editing more in here shortly, plus uploading savefile taken immediately after the battle, if you wanna use that to continue.

[jack1974]

Jack, by doing that you are turning the Easy-mode even more into a non-RPG and into a sole VN, which I thought you weren't planning to do. And also, after that, there's nothing "earning" left in Chalassa's happy ending, It's all your decision, obviously, so I'll shut up.

People playing in Easy totally don't care about the RPG part. They don't want to equip the right item, pick the right skills, build up characters, reload, etc. It's fine, I know many people play like that. I think nobody can play in easy, then come here saying "BAH! Easy is too easy!!" (unless they're like Rowinda, CRAZY!)
Instead I have already several threads with people playing in Easy complaining too much, being frustrated and so on. Normal mode will remain as it is. Remember that in Loren the normal difficulty was probably like Easy in SOTW or even easier! so...
(Also playing in Easy/Normal they get no achievements!)

[rooke30]

People are complaining that "easy mode" is too hard because they picked the wrong skills/attributes/traits. That's actually a very common experience in older style RPGs and is the reason modern RPGs are being streamlined. For future reference you could make the auto-level up/suggested-level-up automatically create decent character builds...

[jack1974]

For future reference you could make the auto-level up/suggested-level-up automatically create decent character builds...

Yes that probably is the best solution, something that I already do on creation when picking the auto-skills gets them the healing/most useful skills for the 3 classes. Still I kind of understand them, since for example I was very frustrated by the difficulty of some games (Blackguard for example) even at the easiest difficulty level!

[fabulaparva]

Save Chalassa -achievement Triggers for all difficulties. Not asking that to be changed, I think that it's good that there are also achievements that don't require everything hard/NM, just pointing out that that achievement with severely crippled Deceit will now be as easy as the "worst pirates"-achievement.

@edm181:
Heavily Abbreviated combat log in Spoiler just to show you the moves: Deceit started with Mass Paralysis before I could enable the log, so that first move is missing.
If you wonder about using Rowinda's canday for 0HP/SP, it's because I was using it for shortening the Paralysis effect further for one turn (Purification takes away only 3). Deceit's turns in bold

Spoiler:

[30:07] Shea using Purification
[30:21] Althea restored 0 HP and 0 SP using Eat Candy on Riley
[30:27] Rowinda hit Demon Deceit for 27 Fire damage using Lava Storm.
[30:27] Rowinda inflicted Burning on Demon Deceit
[30:43] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.
[30:52] Vaelis buffed Jariel with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns
[30:52] Vaelis used Potion of Medium Haste
[30:58] Riley hit Demon Deceit for 32 Air damage using Magic Chains.
[30:58] Riley inflicted Slowed on Demon Deceit
[31:06] Vaelis buffed Althea with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns
[31:06] Vaelis used Potion of Medium Haste
[31:15] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.
[31:15] Demon Deceit is staggered.
[31:15] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[31:15] Demon Deceit hit Rowinda for 13 Dark damage using Insanity.
[31:15] Demon Deceit inflicted Insanity Effect on Rowinda
[31:17] Demon Deceit hit Shea for 12 Dark damage using Insanity.
[31:17] Demon Deceit inflicted Insanity Effect on Shea
[31:18] Demon Deceit hit Jariel for 14 Dark damage using Insanity.
[31:18] Demon Deceit inflicted Insanity Effect on Jariel
[31:29] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 21 Normal damage using Leg Break.
[31:29] Vaelis inflicted Slowed on Demon Deceit
[31:34] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 5 Air damage using Chant of Nightmares.
[31:34] Jariel inflicted Scared on Demon Deceit
[31:34] Jariel inflicted Chant of Nightmares on Demon Deceit
[31:35] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[31:35] Chant of Nightmares caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[31:35] Demon Deceit attack was dodged by Vaelis.
[31:48] Shea using Purification
[32:01] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 22 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.
[32:01] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit
[32:01] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 25 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.
[32:01] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit
[32:07] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 31 Earth damage using Backstab.
[32:07] Althea inflicted Shattered on Demon Deceit
[32:11] Rowinda hit Demon Deceit for 36 Fire damage using Lava Storm.
[32:18] Riley hit Demon Deceit for 46 Earth damage using Shake.
[32:18] Riley inflicted Confused on Demon Deceit
[32:19] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[32:19] Chant of Nightmares caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[32:19] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[32:19] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[32:19] Demon Deceit hit Vaelis for 12 Normal damage using Slumber.
[32:19] Demon Deceit inflicted Slumber on Vaelis
[32:29] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 21 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.
[32:29] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit
[32:29] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 25 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.
[32:29] Critical Hit!
[32:29] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit
[32:37] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.
[32:42] Jariel attack was blocked by Demon Deceit.
[32:42] Jariel used Heavy Explosive Bomb
[32:43] Chant of Nightmares caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[32:43] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[32:43] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[32:43] Demon Deceit hit Althea for 21 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.
[32:43] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Althea
[32:44] Demon Deceit hit Riley for 16 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.
[32:44] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Riley
[32:45] Demon Deceit hit Vaelis for 23 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.
[32:45] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Vaelis
[32:59] Shea neutralized Insanity Effect on Rowinda
[32:59] Shea using Purification
[33:05] Shea neutralized Slumber on Vaelis
[33:06] Chant of Nightmares caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[33:06] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[33:06] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[33:06] Demon Deceit neutralized Confused on Demon Deceit
[33:06] Demon Deceit neutralized Slowed on Demon Deceit
[33:06] Demon Deceit healed Demon Deceit for 265 HP using Cleanse
[33:32] Rowinda hit Demon Deceit for 25 Fire damage using Lava Storm.
[33:37] Riley restored 0 HP and 15 SP using Eat Candy on Althea
[33:43] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.
[33:43] Demon Deceit is staggered
[33:50] Vaelis buffed Shea with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns
[33:50] Vaelis used Potion of Medium Haste
[33:56] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 25 Normal damage using Potion Of Slowness.
[33:56] Jariel inflicted Slowed on Demon Deceit
[34:03] Vaelis buffed Riley with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns
[34:03] Vaelis used Potion of Medium Haste
[34:09] Riley hit Demon Deceit for 38 Earth damage using Shake.
[34:09] Riley inflicted Confused on Demon Deceit
[34:10] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[34:10] Demon Deceit using Chain Lightning.
[34:31] Shea hit Demon Deceit for 22 Earth damage using Earthquake.
[34:37] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.
[34:37] Jariel used Heavy Explosive Bomb
[34:58] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 20 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.
[34:58] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit
[34:58] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 18 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.
[34:58] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit
[34:59] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[34:59] Demon Deceit neutralized Confused on Demon Deceit
[34:59] Demon Deceit healed Demon Deceit for 265 HP using Cleanse
[35:03] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 25 Earth damage using Backstab.
[35:04] Althea inflicted Shattered on Demon Deceit
[35:07] Rowinda hit Demon Deceit for 39 Fire damage using Lava Storm.
[35:07] Rowinda inflicted Burning on Demon Deceit
[35:12] Shea hit Demon Deceit for 22 Earth damage using Earthquake.
[35:13] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[35:13] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[35:13] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[35:13] Demon Deceit hit Althea for 26 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.
[35:13] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Althea
[35:14] Demon Deceit hit Riley for 23 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.
[35:14] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Riley
[35:15] Demon Deceit hit Vaelis for 26 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.
[35:16] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Vaelis
[35:22] Vaelis restored 51 HP and 78 SP using Eat Candy on Riley
[36:59] Riley buffed Jariel with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns
[36:59] Riley used Scroll of Major Haste
[37:06] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.
[37:07] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[37:07] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[37:07] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[37:07] Demon Deceit used Mirror Damage.
[37:37] Althea restored 0 HP and 4 SP using Eat Candy on Riley
[37:43] Vaelis restored 0 HP and 0 SP using Eat Candy on Riley
[38:00] Demon Deceit reflected back 18 damage to Riley thanks to Mirror Damage. Skill duration lowered by 1.
[38:00] Riley hit Demon Deceit for 36 Air damage using Magic Chains.
[38:00] Riley inflicted Slowed on Demon Deceit
[38:21] Shea using Purification
[38:29] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage
[38:29] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[38:29] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage
[38:29] Demon Deceit is KO.

In short.. Shea Purifies. Since Deceit tends to paralyze the backrow, Shea is put in the front as is Rowinda. Rowinda's spells have only a chance to inflict DoT conditions, but spamming those will eventually give you a run where they will stick. Heavy explosives and Vaelis throwing axes will help in inflicting Staggered on Deceit, after which a couple a other skills can be used. Inflicting Confusion and Slowed on Deceit will make him slightly easier to handle. His Cleanse removes only a number of turns of certain conditions, so spamming many turns of, eg slowed might pay off as he'll still have a couple of turns of that left on him after a Cleanse.

Not that any of this matters anymore, logging it here just in case.


(EDITED to remove the link)

[jack1974]

Save Chalassa -achievement Triggers for all difficulties. Not asking that to be changed, I think that it's good that there are also achievements that don't require everything hard/NM, just pointing out that that achievement with severely crippled Deceit will now be as easy as the "worst pirates"-achievement.

I know but you shouldn't really compare yourself with other people (it's a compliment!!)
Because here we're not talking about Nightmare, but people unable to win in Easy mode, and not just one... myself too. I tried that save 3-4 times and gave up. So I know might be a bit upsetting but you must consider what the average gamers can do, not what YOU can do. Not everyone has so much patience/skills as you (for sure, I haven't!).

[fabulaparva]

Sometimes(?) I word stuff in ways that will translate poorly over the internet? It's not my intention to compare myself to anyone else, I'm actually trying to spread out the gospel that it can be done through trial and error. By anyone. I'm really not that special. Maybe just cursed with patience and happened to have an ounce more time for trying it out than Troyen had. This was a particularly challenging build for this particular fight even on easy, as he pointed out.

[jack1974]

Yes, indeed I mentioned also the "patience" component. I know it well because several times I stopped playing games because I simply don't have time/patience to try a specific point (battle or puzzle or anything). Remember that Loren even had a "VN mode" in which you could skip all the battles, something that is not possible for SOTW (because some battles have specific conditions). So at least I want to make sure the Easy mode is winnable by anyone, even the most casual players

[Troyen]

People are complaining that "easy mode" is too hard because they picked the wrong skills/attributes/traits. That's actually a very common experience in older style RPGs and is the reason modern RPGs are being streamlined.

JThis party was hugely problematic for this type of a fight. I think that in RPGs, one usually need to take into consideration both the capability to do high singular enemy dmg as well as some row damage. ...

I think part of the problem, and I mentioned this in the other thread, is the skills that work best on Deceit aren't really needed on most of the enemies earlier in the game. I think the closest comparison to a tough single-target fight would be the Kodiak way back in Act 1. Since you're not up against heavy defense, healing, dispelling, paralysis-inflicting bosses all by themselves until potentially the end of Act 3, you can easily have a build that works in the rest of the game, but falls flat here.

A few difficult (but not-Deceit level) single-boss fights using some of these mechanics interspersed in Act 2 and early Act 3 would have helped "guide" people to take skills more suitable for the heavy single-boss fights with Deceit and in Act 4.

(P.S. Nobody is talking about Jul, but I suspect she's equally as difficult with this team and some of the others.)

[edm181]

Thank you! i really appreciate the advice i got from everyone