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Yeah I get that too. I think people forget, especially with games, that there is a hidden force behind it that can effect things. I am also a Bioware fan (for similiar reasons) and I see a lot of people accuse them of laziness or willfull malevolence, when really it was behind the scenes issues.

thenoun wrote:It's not like Lola f/f romance's inclusion happens at the expense of a male romance. It's simply an extra for f/f players. And it's going to be written for free on top of it so it isn't even something Jack planned. Would you have him turn down a free romance? As I'm used to f/f romances being added as an afterthought in a few otome games it makes me very happy to actually have more content for the first time. Ideally I would like for BxB players to have an extra romance too but...considering it was the writers decision with Lola I don't know if it's possible.

I miss the free writer thing, it makes everything different, but I NEVER say anything about removing the extra romance, how about you reread my first post without the idea that I'm angry and out to kill yuri(I was kind of angry but it was for the CG thing). Because I have nothing against it.

thenoun wrote:]Honestly I'm just afraid Jack will decide to scrap Lola's f/f romance

In other word your like me you are just here to express your opinion about what you want(and your 1st post too ).

jack1974 wrote: I know, but the writer offered to write Lola x Diana for FREE, because she really liked the couple. It wasn't planned at all. One thing is if I made 2-3-4 more other romances vs yaoi, but in this case is JUST ONE more, and which I got for free. Everything else in this game is equal. Honestly, I don't think is such a big deal

I never say that it was a big deal, I guess we can say that "the straw that breaks the camel's back", it was a bit a little thing here and there and to be honest if you didn't write

jack1974 wrote:And yes, Diana gets an extra romance but the extra CG Alex gets will be totally worth it, is probably one of the most beautiful image I've seen

I wouldn't have wrote so much, it was the thing that kind of made me angry because it sound like an excuse

jack1974 wrote:also considering that as you said future games will have equal amount and I'm even making a yaoi only game I don't think I'm ignoring yaoi fans at all !
Also, it's not easy to find writers (of a certain quality) interested in writing yaoi as it's to find the other writing straight or yuri. But I'll do my best

who say anything about ignoring yaoi fan and pretty sure I already say I was grateful for the BxB options.

Rebly82 wrote:that it is shocking someone would dredge up a Yuri vs Yaoi thingy (I know I wouldn't have made noise if the BxB folks got more). At least pick a combat size that is significantly bigger, if you have to!

...a yaoi vs yuri battle??? where?? I was hoping that no one would assume that my post was against yuri , but I guess it the good old internet to see everything as an attack , I was dissapointed so I decide to express myself and since I was kind of angry because of the CG thing so I let everything out and you know what I didn't ask that jack make change I didn't say thing like "please add kaiden as an option for male player" even when I didn't know that it was a free romance because it would have been unfair to GxB/BxG players and because my goal was to have my opinion heard, that's all,
I wasn't picking a fight

Honestly I'm just afraid Jack will decide to scrap Lola's f/f romance

Hope not. But I will respect whatever the writer and Jack decides. I still think it would be a good idea to also add some gameplay stuff too based on feedback that people might want or find interesting.[/quote]

The tought that Jack scrap the romance didn't even cross my mind.

kadakithis wrote:Sorry Exizel, I really get it.

Thanks you Thanks you Thanks you Thanks you Thanks you.
that the type of reponse I was hoping for ^^.

kadakithis wrote:Sorry There are so few games with any romance content for LGBT and the number of L are slowly going up but not for the G. Its like every person who makes these things we are on pins and needles. Believe you me, I constantly look for games with Lesbian content (and not weird lesbian content made for dudes) thats how I found Jack.

I know, I'm the same, one of the reason the L appear more is because it is now more often add to otome while the G is rarely add to the BxG(wish the genre had a name). Most of the time I found BxB is either alone or in a all romance combo(like in the indies harvest moon games).It doesn't help that a lot of BxB games aren't even part VN community

I found Jack by hearing about Loren, I'm going to be honest, I had a hard time to believe that a game named Loren the amazon princess and with a "almost naked" Loren on the front could possibly have a good BxB route, the all thing made ring several alarm in my head but I decided to researh more about the game before judging and I don't regret it.

kadakithis wrote:One reason I also get any MxM stuff is to support you guys, so I might make some noise on Tumblr/redditt so maybe people are more aware of Heirs and Graces. Its hard to find jack's stuff because he always labels it under yaoi/yuri which normally I avoid like the plague. If people realize its a gay game there may be more interest?

it true that yaoi/yuri labels can do as much of good as bad, if I see something call yaoi I expect it to be bad, I almost always look to see if it is really bad but yeah I know that some people won't even do that, but if I see the word uke or/and seme I'm out.

The funny thing about all this is that there is a lot more chance that I will do the DianaxLola romance than the DianaxKaiden one , it weird but if I play a female I go for the GxG romance if it isn't "male porn", I do it since DA2 even if I decide to make a straight hawke at the start, he/she always end up Gay/lesbian, I don't know why but it just feel better, more natural/equal

jack1974 wrote:Thanks I was partly joking in what I wrote above.
And I know people are so upset because they care about it! The problem is that there are a lot of things going on "behind the scenes" and I can't always manage to do what I want. (see that artist guy a while ago for Spirited Heart that quit because didn't want to draw yuri/yaoi scenes... that screwed up the plan completely )

and after that you choose the DeiKat duo artist/writer if remember correctly who were working on C14.

kadakithis wrote:Yeah I get that too. I think people forget, especially with games, that there is a hidden force behind it that can effect things. I am also a Bioware fan (for similiar reasons) and I see a lot of people accuse them of laziness or willfull malevolence, when really it was behind the scenes issues.

the biggest being time,the people who pay the game and the people's lack of understanding of game creation doesn't help, most people don't know, can't see what happen behind , and it's in human nature to think the worst possibility but in the end we never really know if no one tell us, talking about bioware , the romance debate are all about that, people think that they have an agenda , or that they want to attack straight gamers,
that they were to lazy to add more option or didn't have time, but in the end no one know.

I was sad when I learn that cullen was supposed to be bi and I always wonder why, I heard several theory from the fact that they didn't have time or the ressource or there was that post from one of the writerI think about no making more GxG, BxB option than straight(and that wouldn't surprise me with how the fanbase act) but I'll never know so rather than choosing an anwser and complain, I just move on wait to see what they are going to do in the next game.

Exizel wrote:
I miss the free writer thing, it makes everything different, but I NEVER say anything about removing the extra romance, how about you reread my first post without the idea that I'm angry and out to kill yuri(I was kind of angry but it was for the CG thing). Because I have nothing against it.

The scrapping the romances thing was said in jest for the most part. I didn't think that you were out to destroy yuri or anything I don't know how I made that impression. Sorry? You spoke out pretty heavily against the extra ff romance, so I guess I got defensive. As you mentioned in dai they added two two extra straight romances for the female PC (as if there was any scarcity of them ). So I understand where you're coming from. I also understand it's not just about this game and more of a general reaction.

And it's not my first post technically, I just hadn't logged in in ages and forgot my username/password

jack1974 wrote:I know BxB has good potential but the real test will be with Heirs & Graces (I'm one of the few indies with a yaoi only game being developed right now BTW). If that one does well, you can expect more BxB stuff in future for sure, even if a lot depends also on writers/artist/etc. (not everyone writes yaoi).

I think it's...probably not quite so informative to gauge general interest in relationships based off a single game. There are many factors that go into whether or not a specific game sells. People don't buy games just for the relationships, there is also story, gameplay, art, and sometimes sound/music to contend with.

I can't speak to Heirs & Graces, but as a similar example: I enjoy playing GxG, but I'm going to pass on Summer in Trigue because I can't stand the over-proportioned supermodel character art. That doesn't mean I want to see GxG development trickle off in the future.

I know it's tough as a developer to risk sinking a lot of money into a project that you don't know how well it'll be received, but if you can, it's probably better to look at trends across several games before making a conclusion about the popularity of a single route. E.g. don't just look at H&G sales, but also the popularity of the BxB routes on the games that have multiple types of romances (Loren, SotW, PS, etc.) - maybe steam achievements or some other way. The success (or not) of H&G could be for a variety of reasons beyond simply it being BxB.

As a Mexican I'm only disappointed I will not be able to romance Kaden as a male, I was really hoping for him )=, anyway, still awesome, thank you so much for everything Jack.

Troyen wrote: I can't speak to Heirs & Graces, but as a similar example: I enjoy playing GxG, but I'm going to pass on Summer in Trigue because I can't stand the over-proportioned supermodel character art. That doesn't mean I want to see GxG development trickle off in the future.

Ah, strange I thought the art was more on the "cute side" and not over-proportioned supermodel

Troyen wrote: I know it's tough as a developer to risk sinking a lot of money into a project that you don't know how well it'll be received, but if you can, it's probably better to look at trends across several games before making a conclusion about the popularity of a single route. E.g. don't just look at H&G sales, but also the popularity of the BxB routes on the games that have multiple types of romances (Loren, SotW, PS, etc.) - maybe steam achievements or some other way. The success (or not) of H&G could be for a variety of reasons beyond simply it being BxB.

Yes could be, though it would be the first "pure yaoi" game. There are BxB romances in all my RPGs, but those also have all other romances as well so hard to say. Checking the Steam achievement info though could be a good idea

Yeah I'm also not big on Summer in Trigue art either (no offense to the artist), it's not terrible or anything but in comparison of the other games' art it's definitely my least favorite so far.

Lol and I was thinking that Shiori design is one of the cutest character of all my games...!

thenoun wrote:Yeah I'm also not big on Summer in Trigue art either (no offense to the artist), it's not terrible or anything but in comparison of the other games' art it's definitely my least favorite so far.

Woah, the art seemed really off to me too, and usually I don't care much about art. One reason I liked that Liz was an option is she looked more real(?) than the other girls who seemed off, Its odd since it isn't overly sexy or anything. The artist is quite skilled, and I don't mind manga art, but they seemed really oddly fake, like their looks were decided before their characters, or something about the design because the artist is pretty amazing. I was sure it was just me.

I think probably because you see them in bikini No other game shows them in bikini like this. Otherwise, even Roommates could have same "problem" (see Isabella) and it's my best selling dating sim ever...!