Poll: Do you think you would enjoy an eroge game from Winter Wolves?
Yes (462 votes)
86%
No (16 votes)
3%
Maybe/It depends (57 votes)
11%
OtterFaceNov 01, 2013
Now let me clarify, I really enjoy the otome/dating sims the Winter Wolves team is producing. I have absolutely no problem with idealized, pure romance, but after playing a couple of games like Heileen 3 and Nicole where sex and sexuality are specifically referenced, I wanted to ask -is there any chance we might actually see a sexual relationship fully realized in future games?
I don't mean in the pornographic sense, where explicit sex is shown just for the sake of it. I mean something more along the lines of Katawa Shoujo, where sex is:
1. Part of the story (not simply tacked on)
2. An important aspect of character relationships
3. Portrayed in a mature, varied manner (e.g. healthy, emotionally damaging, good, bad) that contributes to characterization and character development
4. Depicted tastefully (while still retaining the eroticism)
Now, Katawa Shoujo in particular was really explicit in some scenes. This level of explicitness might not be appropriate for Winter Wolves games, but I still think it would be interesting to see this kind of interaction between characters. Ideally, not as a culmination of the game quest (i.e. not as a reward for giving a character the correct gifts or "winning" the game), but as an integral part of their story as a couple. Ideally, it wouldn't be a "reward" at the very end of the game either, but written into the plot more organically.
Since Jack seems to prefer to keep his games as accessible as possible, it could be an optional thing, with censored and uncensored versions of the same game or an option to turn these scenes off.
Thoughts?
Any chance we might see some tasteful eroge in Winter Wolves' future? Am I the only one who'd like to play something like this?
AleemaNov 01, 2013
Have you played Loren The Amazon Princess?
jack1974Nov 01, 2013
Heh was about to post that Loren was very explicit. Planet Stronghold had some sexy images but not much. All the next games will have both normal/sexy versions - but I'm talking mostly about the RPGs, instead I think otterface is talking about VN/dating sims only?
SylrissaNov 01, 2013
Ah yes who could ever forget about Chamby's CG in Loren for one :D
jack1974Nov 01, 2013
Now that I remember, even some Roommates CG are quite sexy, so I think you could really enjoy that one, Otter
P_TigrasNov 01, 2013
I can't say that I've played a lot of "eroge", and I'm no prude, but I've disliked every single one of the handful of eroge's I've played. Too much gratuitous porn combined with unbelievabily bad stories. Loren on the other hand I don't have the least bit problem with. Loren could have gone a bit farther in that direction and I wouldn't have minded. So put me down in the maybe, it depends on how well it's done column.
OtterFaceNov 01, 2013
I've played the demo of Loren, but I have yet to buy the full game. I knew it was more...fanservice-y than other WW games, but I didn't realize it featured actual sex. Interesting.
But yeah, Jack is right. I was referring to VNs/dating sims, not RPGs, since this is what I play the most
Is there a particular reason the more explicit content is saved for the RPGs, actually? Is it that the writers who work on these games have different strengths/preferences or is it a conscious decision to keep the dating sims more romantic and less sexual? Just curious.
How is the subject handled in Roommates? So far it sounds like exactly my type of game, so I'm really looking forward to it
@P_Tigras What kind of eroge have you played? To be honest, most of what I played in the genre (mostly japanese translations) has been really cringe worthy and terrible. Sex is a sensitive subject and erotic content is very difficult to do in a non-offensive, non-gratuitous manner. Main reason I'm asking about it here is because I'd trust the WW team to deliver quality content.
jack1974Nov 01, 2013
Is just a random coincidence that so far the most spicy content was allowed for the RPG. In some cases depends on artists, for example I don't think Nicole artist would do anything too much steamy both Loren, Planet Stronghold and Roommates artists are fine drawing more hot stuff instead.
About how it's handled in Roommates... well is mainly a light-comedy game with lots of jokes, but there are some serious/romantic moments too. There's a scene during Spring Break where all the characters go in a holiday home and there can happen all kind of stuff, there are some very sexy scenes but it's nothing gratuitous. Well I'm not the best judge for such things but I think it's very well done
Lonestar51Nov 01, 2013
I really would like to see such a game from winterwolves - which includes explicit sexual content, but which has an interesting story (i.e. it's not as if the scenes were written in a way that it leads ASAP to the explecit content...)
And I voted "YES", as jack has the experience to make it in an interesting way.
HOWEVER...
I do not expect it to happen, and if I were jack I would not do anything where sex is a selling point. (A scantily clad girl is one thing, it's on every other game's box, but promising sex - big no-no.)
The reason why it is a bad idea is that people take about zero point two seconds to form an opinion, and after that any additional information just reinforces the opinion. (Except: you can always scare them off...) So if they read "sex" first thing, they will assume it is the described variant of shallow "how to get to the steamy stuff QUICK" game. Except of course the return customers which have bought several games here, but you cannot write a game which does not reach out to first time customers at least a little bit.
The other reason is that later people will remember anything which has to do with sex more vividly than anything else - even (and especially) if sex was the reason not to buy.
OtterFaceNov 01, 2013
I agree it could a risky move, marketing-wise, but I don't imagine Jack and the team would market anything on promises of erotic content alone.
Going back to the example of Katawa Shoujo, I was only vaguely aware that it featured some explicit scenes from checking the Options Menu and seeing there is an option to turn them off, but I don't recall people going mental about it on news sites and the like.
Some reviewers found the writing a bit unsexy or commented on the fact that the game could be misconstrued as a "disability fetish simulator", but I still feel that a more mainstream kind of romance (like a university/college setting) could incorporate some erotic element without making it the main selling point and giving people the wrong idea. Also, as I said, it could be an optional thing, featuring only in the uncensored version of this hypothetical game.
I don't think it's likely to happen either, as it's risky and hard to implement, but I've noticed some of WW's latest otome games are definitely getting more bold in their mentions/depictions of sex
(like, John's or Sebastian's ending in Heileen or Kurt's ending in Nicole)
so I thought it might be nice to just go all the way and portray it openly.
Either way, an otter can dream.
On a side note, I actually find that scantily-clad ladies on any type of game make me avoid it almost automatically. Even more so due to the fact that they are so common in games, even though their presence is just cheap and exploitative most of the time.
Is just a random coincidence that so far the most spicy content was allowed for the RPG. In some cases depends on artists, for example I don't think Nicole artist would do anything too much steamy
Aww...shame, cause I love those characters and some steamy scenes with them would be a treat.
About how it's handled in Roommates... well is mainly a light-comedy game with lots of jokes, but there are some serious/romantic moments too. There's a scene during Spring Break where all the characters go in a holiday home and there can happen all kind of stuff, there are some very sexy scenes but it's nothing gratuitous. Well I'm not the best judge for such things but I think it's very well done
Cool! Really looking forward to it.
Who is the writer? Have they worked on another game of yours?
JaegerNov 02, 2013
It's not what I look for specifically in a game, but if it's handled carefully, I wouldn't complain.
Having sex as the main theme could be hard to sell though. It was already mentioned that there is a possibility of giving a bad first impression. Also, some digital distribution platforms may impose rules regarding sexual content, which would limit where this game can be sold.
jack1974Nov 02, 2013
On a side note, I actually find that scantily-clad ladies on any type of game make me avoid it almost automatically. Even more so due to the fact that they are so common in games, even though their presence is just cheap and exploitative most of the time.
that was a big problem for Loren indeed. The fact that there were equally scantily dressed men didn't seem to matter to people. I can understand though since in most games (in particular AAA/mainstream) the women are really badly written and used to sell the game with the body, instead of having a strong character, being smart, not passive, etc. That's also why Loren 2 and SOTW and my other future games will have more covered characters (also for realism!), but still have sexy scenes
Cool! Really looking forward to it.
Who is the writer? Have they worked on another game of yours?
Writer? MrEnvy8 is just another slaves of my mines! <cracks whip>
Jokes apart it's his first game, but his writing is both funny (was a requirement for this game) but also deep when needed. Check the game forums for an intro video with some funny scenes, and this image for some more "serious" writing:
he's now working on Undead Lily since he's an expert of RPGs and CCG in particular
Having sex as the main theme could be hard to sell though. It was already mentioned that there is a possibility of giving a bad first impression. Also, some digital distribution may impose rules regarding sexual content, which would limit where this game can be sold.
Yeah I don't want to have sex as main theme, too risky. I honestly think that my games are all very sexy compared to the other indies, of course excluding those making explicitly eroge/porn games
SilverHyenaNov 02, 2013
The fact that there were equally scantily dressed men didn't seem to matter to people.
For the record, I appreciated this thoroughly! I don't get enough male eye candy in my everyday video games. Loren definitely helps fill that void. Thank you, Jack, for catering to my needs.
Aaaaaanyway, more on topic. As long as it's a Winter Wolves game and I have the ability to romance something I would buy it, sexy adult content or not. I have full faith in Jack's games so he can just do whatever he wants and I'll be happy. Though it never hurts to have more bxb... And it'd be nice to date some of those sexy monsters in Loren... (You can ignore me now. I'm being unreasonable. )
OtterFaceNov 02, 2013
The fact that there were equally scantily dressed men didn't seem to matter to people.
It totally mattered to me! Having this equal opportunity objectification averted my usual skepticism when it came to Loren.
My first impression of "ugh, more boobs" quickly changed to "whoa, this is actually consistent across all characters!" as soon as I saw the screenshots. I remember being pretty impressed. We don't see this kind of thing in most mainstream games.
But, maybe keeping the characters a bit more covered (to begin with) might be a good idea.
Yeah I don't want to have sex as main theme, too risky.
Perfectly understandable. I don't think anyone would really want it to be more than a secondary/tertiary theme.
I honestly think that my games are all very sexy compared to the other indies, of course excluding those making explicitly eroge/porn games
That's actually true. I hope I don't sound like a complete perv asking for more sexy content.
jack1974Nov 02, 2013
That's actually true. I hope I don't sound like a complete perv asking for more sexy content.
Hmm sorry, it's too late for that!
Anyway if you play Loren (in the Easy mode the RPG part is really simple) let me know what you think of the romances. I think that it's a good example of how far I want to go (the maximum I mean) both in images and texts
OtterFaceNov 02, 2013
Hmm sorry, it's too late for that!
Darn!
But yeah, it sounds like I should really add Loren to my shopping list. For...erm, research purposes.
NotthefaceJan 24, 2014
I like games that can get kind of gritty and maybe show a universe that is a little more mature and nuanced than normal. Two games that fit this for me are the Neverwinter Nights mod "Dance with Rogues" and the Choice of Games adventure "Choice of Romance". They both let the player pick different solutions to problems, and there are always consequences.
In ADWR you play a princess trying to survive on the streets after she escapes the sacking of the capital. Suddenly alone she needs to figure out quickly how she's going to leverage her skills. Will she steal, mug, work, con or prostitute herself to survive?
In COR it's a young person at court and you can manipulate court politics through leveraging power, wealth, and seduction.
I'd love to see a game from Winter Wolves similar in theme to ADWR. it's a gritty setting where some people are out to take advantage of the heroine and others are kind hearted and willing to help. Almost every challenge can be solved multiple ways. Generally through money, brute force, stealth, persuasion, or seduction. Depending on your character, and the choices you made, some may be more likely to succeed than others. I could easily see the "sins" mechanic used in Heileen being used here
Something is also like to see is a characters actions effecting some reputation sliders. Which will change how people react to the character. Become a notorious thug and some may be intimidated but the police will look down on you. Be the school tramp and some people will seek you out but others will judge and hate you.
I think in the end if mature content gets implemented this way, where it is a choice and a core mechanic of the game then it stops being just for titilation.
George RR Martin put a lot of grit and sexuality into the Song of Ice and Fire series and created a great piece off tie storytelling in a genre that tended to cater to more black and white views of the world. I think something like that from WInter Wolves could tell a great story as well
ShyGuysAreTheBestMar 15, 2014
Ideally it'd be optional and there could be an option to turn the mature stuff off. The stuff in Roommates was already pushing it a bit for me at times. O////O
senhua1980Aug 25, 2014
that was a big problem for Loren indeed. The fact that there were equally scantily dressed men didn't seem to matter to people. I can understand though since in most games (in particular AAA/mainstream) the women are really badly written and used to sell the game with the body, instead of having a strong character, being smart, not passive, etc. That's also why Loren 2 and SOTW and my other future games will have more covered characters (also for realism!), but still have sexy scenes
I think this is very sad because in this kind of games art direction is very important, not just sexy scenes. I personally prefer the art in Loren, so if in all your future games (Loren 2, SoTW etc) there are a change in art direction (especially about clothes/ appearance) maybe Loren is the last game i bought from you then.
I already played SoTW Beta and hated for appearance/clothes art direction (why everyone in there must use covered clothes even in south / tropical climate).
jack1974Aug 26, 2014
In Loren 2 there are still some sexy outfits, but not like Loren 1. I think Loren 1 was quite exaggerated I mean, like Myrth...
With SOTW I wanted to try something different, try to get players for the RPG part more than the story/romances (which are still present). It has the isometric maps and a crazy amount of improvements on Loren's gameplay (spent like 6 months just coding the improvements!!).
I'll see how it goes - I know that the excessive sexyness of Loren was a bit damaging the game, but if SOTW approach does worse, I'll go back to the sexyness. I like sexy and erotic stuff, but unfortunately is VERY HARD to sell it and a lot of people in the videogame industry see it as a negative thing
Anyway: Loren 2 will be more similar to Loren 1 than SOTW. In the bonus content images there are two versions, and one features full nudity again
