there's a possible chance that The Users(tm) convinces Jack to equalize both types of regen

Itemization is a discussion between three people and Jack right now. I would be delighted to see so many new faces joining the discussions that they could push for such a change on merit of democratic vote - hypothetically, of course, as the decision is Jack's in the end.

Maybe if the possible options could be squeezed into a few clear alternative choices, a poll could be set up. That might be more easily approachable than this thread apparently is and would help get more opinions in.

Yes if you can make a poll would be cool.

I don't want to cause battles to become longer - I am already designing the next chapter one so that "most" enemies have high attack and lower defense, since now they can use resurrection, when I first tried the battles would last ages (you kill an enemy, or two, and a healer resurrects them).

Personally I think 20HP Regen on Mages wouldn't change things dramatically though (in particular make battles much longer), because of their high skills delay, but of course that should be only on a epic/rare fixed item.

Not to change the subject but my Mana Channel No. 4 has become legendary... I'm pretty sure it was masterwork when I bought it. Edit: It's also worth only 250g now.



As for the poll, I'm not stuck on Spirit of Ninim must have mad HPR. But I am stuck on it must be a valid alternative to the staff. Even if you make it an awesome shoulder item or whatever, it's better to have an awesome weapon and a decent shoulder than the opposite. I am envisioning it as a ring, so it could have the regen.

Not to change the subject but my Mana Channel No. 4 has become legendary... I'm pretty sure it was masterwork when I bought it. Edit: It's also worth only 250g now.

Yes happened here too the problem is that the item updating messes up with the description, will need to fix it somehow.



edit: OK fixed it with a hack

I actually tried and the old saves don't work again even with the "old" Ren'Py. I am not sure exactly WHY, but at this point will go on finishing the act3 since I'm very close to it, and once I've done that will do another update (probably early next week) even without the tileset since fixed several stuff already.

So 0.8.24.15 saves will be broken? ;_;



Just check my signature to understand what I went through yesterday, in vain if the save will break. I will drink all the shots myself...



But we're getting act 3 with missing tiles? I'm such a confused sword right now.



Also, draft for Spirit of Ninim lore text.

Show Spoiler

This cheerful little wisp followed you away from home, and is now blissfully darting around you without a care in the world. There's no use asking if you can keep it; you don't think you could get rid of it even if you wanted to.



Purposely left gender-neutral. Also for funs it could be unsellable.

Yes honestly sometimes I don't understand myself WHY they break:

- try with new renpy = broken because of "type" keyword used

- renpy coder fixes it framework-side, I test saves, they work

- I work some more on it = saves broken again! even using current renpy version!!! WTF, seriously.



And no I want to do an update with the new renpy but still only act2, since I did several changes/bugfixes. Act3 is 90% coded but without the tilemap there are many things not working that I need to add. In practice now I test it like if was a continuous story, without any map movement, shops, etc so that's why is a bit hard to balance.

Idea for how the druid items could be presented from the blacksmith...



Blacksmith: And you... druid, yes? I may have something for you.

-choose between staff and spirit-



If player chooses staff

Blacksmith: I was going to use this branch for a spear. And I swear, there was nothing odd about it until you showed up. I mean no offense.

Druid: What's odd about it?

Blacksmith: I can't cut it and I can't burn it, and... I'm frankly a little afraid to even demonstrate any of that.

Blacksmith: I'm not sure it's a blessing or a curse, but I was hoping you could figure that out.

Druid: I'll have a look.

Narrator: The branch flies into <druid twin>'s hands.

Druid: Whoa!

Druid: Whoa...

Druid: Do you know which tree the branch came from?

Blacksmith: I buy these in bulk. I don't have a clue.

Druid: You might want to be a little more selective.

Blacksmith: Why, is the branch mad with me?

Druid: Not with you. I'm not sure with whom.

Rowinda: <druid twin> has an angry stick!

Blacksmith: So, anyway... do you want it? I'll pay you to take it off my hands even.

Druid: That won't be necessary. I'm sure I can direct its wrath.



If player chooses spirit

Blacksmith: This little fella-

Blacksmith: There it goes!

Druid: Aww!

Blacksmith: He, she... it... it got here just as you left. I was a little spooked, but it seems harmless. Even... I don't know, invigorating.

Blacksmith: And as I thought, it didn't come here for me.

Blacksmith: I knew it had to have something to do with druid magic.

Blacksmith: So playful...

Blacksmith: I'm gonna miss that little fella.

Druid: I'm sorry, did you say something?

Haha nice, I think will add them

I'm guessing you could add the sprite to the screen? And move it around every time someone says a new line.

You mean the spirit of Ninim ? yes I can move it around in that scene, after that it will stay in the inventory though (otherwise I would have to change too much).

Yeah, do that

Itemization is a discussion between three people and Jack right now.

true, but we four are enough.

Personally I think 20HP Regen on Mages wouldn't change things

the HPR creeped from Druid to mages in general. QED

Okay renke. Are we gonna treat Jack like a politician who presumably has all his posts filtered through a council of advisers to achieve the perfect nuance? I thought not and the only item he has shown us since the discussion started is Rowinda's (mage) ring with negative HPR.



This is still a beta, that's the time to try ideas and see what works and what doesn't. I really don't feel I'm met with any resistance when I say that 1 HPR is not as powerful as 1 SPR, yet we're gonna keep rhyming the numbers because...?



The staff is a weapon. If someone offered you a deal for each of your characters, where all items except one would be "random trash" and that last one would be awesome, wouldn't you make that one the weapon for each and every one of them? I sure would. If the spirit is not going to be a weapon - and it shouldn't, I think we agree on that - it needs to have something special to keep it attractive. I think thematically HPR is very fitting.



An armor piece with very high magic like you suggested isn't a bad idea either, as I typically feel that when your magic is twice your target's, you want a bigger staff, but before that you want more magic (although you don't really choose between the two). So the staff would be for nuking enemy warriors/thieves harder, and the spirit for getting the double multiplier even against enemy mages. That's still an offensive purpose though but I don't think it stomps on the innocence of the spirit anywhere near as much as making it a weapon would. But then I would say the armor item should be better than even the theoretically possible best item a shop can generate, and I'm pretty sure we're already there if we give it 25 magic, though I'm not sure that's enough.



I think this is splitting into two discussions - possible stat themes for the spirit and your fear of change



Something we could do instead of trying high HPR anywhere at all is making the existing HPR (Euphoria/LBT) cheaper... that would be another way to compensate it for being weaker point for point. Originally I just wanted high HPR on the spirit because it's fitting, now I've started advocating for the rights of HPR allover Aravorn...

Regarding the Spirit of Ninim possibly being "unsellable" --- What does happen if the "Dropable"-field in the .ods is set to False instead of True? Right now it's set to True for everything (expect for one spoilerish quest item).



EDIT: Has the layout for armour stats been changed? There are planned armour items with HPR and SPR, but at least v0.8.24.15 doesn't show those slots. Should the info on, for example, Spirit of Ninim's HPR and SPR put into the description or will the armour layout show those once the game is updated into act 3?

Yes setting the dropable means player can't get rid of it

And no, the layout is the one you see in game, but in the .ods there can be extra fields since was more generic. They're not used in the game but to be safe better leave them set to 0 in the .ods too

Ah. Just wanted to ask about the HPR and SPR because right now both ultimate shields and the Spirit have +2 HPR and +2 SPR on them (wasntme! )

I put some random values, like Rowinda ring has -10HP/15SP Regen, but just to create the items, I assumed that you would tweak them

as the item awesomness seems to be defined by regen values we should maybe design additional char-specific equipment if the "correct" one is an armour piece (say a dagger to complement Chalassa's blood band)

My only problem is if they become overpowered, but otherwise I see no problem with more char-specific items. As long as there is nothing else to add (quests and such). I still want to release the game this year, and even if probably will finish coding/testing ACT3 at end of September (crossing fingers) there's still another one, plus the final testing that could even last 1-2 months, so we're already almost at December

I posted the poll on the Spirit of Ninim. Feel free to delete it on sight, if you rather not have it there.



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