So imagine. In a RPG game (a dating sim won't work since the goal is to romance someone), you romance a character, make love with him/her, and then you discover that he/she used you (in various ways).

Would it TOTALLY SUCK, be acceptable, you wouldn't buy anymore my games, or...?

Just wondering how you would react to this (of course the betrayal would fit the plot, wouldn't be just a sudden/random thing).

I would add a winter wolf called Jack as a bonus joke boss in the next bug fix to the game.



A problem might be that some people play the romances as wish fulfilment exactly like in a dating sim, basically a mini dating sim game inside the RPG game.

As for me, I'd be okay with it if I get the opportunity to exact sweet bloody revenge on the, ahm I mean to make sure that he/she is unable do that ever again to someone.

As for me, I'd be okay with it if I get the opportunity to exact sweet bloody revenge

Very much the above, without the sugar-coating. Hmm, there is the question how the revenge would fit into the story arc, the revenge might be a bit hurried as getting the love of the life at start of chapter 1 would not evoke the same "bastard" feeling as when the player needs to do a lot of social boss fights to get to the romance scene.



I would suggest, however, that the bastard should be characterized as bastard before the romance starts. OK, even then there may be players who think "I can romance him/her, so (s)he cannot be as bad. I will change her/him, make her/him nice. Or there may be a reason for this." (They may think (s)he is much like Reid the dancer or the grave robber in Spirited heart.) They will be annoyed and sad. Anyway, just wanted to say this *will* be daring, and *will* offend some buyers. (Not me of course, I take a lot except bland games. )

I'd be disappointed the the SOB was the only romance-able character, but otherwise I don't have a problem with it.

Yes of course it wouldn't be the only romanceable character, and you would get "warning signs". It would be as the mentioned Reid, or even Rei in Loren also it could be a possible variant. I mean in one case with a specific behavior you could get that outcome, in another you could get a different one. It could be interesting I think.

The revenge idea is also funny (of course would be a non-bloody revenge... right?)

It would be absolutely perfect from where I'm standing, as long as it was an actual part of the overall plot. In fact, I think I suggested something along those lines in another thread, a character who seemed nice, but was actually playing you.

I think it could be handled very well, and provide an interesting twist. (Even in my RPGs, I like romance though, so I would appreciate not ALL the options being like that!)



It should also, in my opinion, be able to fit neatly into the plot or as a subplot (finding revenge, etc), so a happy ending for the PLAYER is possible, even if not the character.



Damien from Magical Diary (a Hanako Games game) was a perfect example for me.

(of course would be a non-bloody revenge... right?)

WHAT? Sure not! The more red pixels the better!

It would be as the mentioned Reid, or even Rei in Loren

Reid was portrayed as a ruthless gold digger in the first part of the romance, and then there were the reasons shown for her behaviour. And Reid never behaved wrong towards the PC. Which is not what I understood the bastard would be ... the bastard would be more or less normal at the begin (warning signs aside), and then dump the PC while laughing. "You did not really think you are more than a temporary distraction?" After which the player should have the option to do revenge. Bloody, horribly violent pixel-revenge.

If you really think on that, Chambara might be classified as a "bastard"(at least if you are Saren, with Elenor, she's cute). Look at her actions: She's seduce your character while at the same time mocks their interaction, she leaves they all the same(with the difference that she actually have a "good ending" if the players romanced her with Elenor)at the end of the game and etc.

I think it would be PERFECT if you put others "true" bastards in your games, Jack. It would be nice to have something different and less "true love" and show that there ARE people who use others for their own agenda(and the heartbreak, grow and the revenge would be a sight to see) and that we must be careful of whom we put our trust.

There are people who are bastards and are excellent friends, but terrible lovers(for they cannot be trusted in a deep serious relationship), so making the bastard someone the players actually like would be nice. They would only show their "bad" side once they were committed to a real relationship. The bastard might even apologize for not being capable of loving the character, or even saying that the character is a pain in the @$$ and that didn't know it would be like this, therefore, losing the friendship/love at the same time.

(Actually, when I played Loren the Amazon Princess, I would imagine my Elenor character as a bastard who flirts with everyone to get her way in doing the amazon's bidding, sometimes, she would flirt even with Loren to get her to do what she want. The difference being that, she acted in such way because she was trained as a Bard by her deceased mistress, therefore, she is manipulative/cruel/assassin by nature, and only after a long, long, loooong time, she let her guard down for Loren. However her story could be totally different in others circumstances, like; she, being a spy and an assassin, simply wouldn't know HOW to love, therefore, killing any possibility of romance.)

this is just an example, but I think the character should be romanceable by anyone, but wouldn't count as a romance. That way, the player wouldn't loose their romance option(especially if the bastard was the only BxB or GxG option of the game, would be quite unfair.) and would be able to get another one through the game.

The bastard should be ambiguous in their feelings. Sometimes they would show affection or even jealousy and another they wouldn't even care. That way, the player would get a warning(maybe even from others character. You might even increase the romance if the bastard hurt the player so bad that another romanceable character, would try to fight for him. That would be nice and I believe, quite romantic).

Cool, well in Loren's sequel there's a perfect occasion to have a bastard (or more!) characters, and in the other RPGs as well. OK you will get what you asked for!

Oh no! I am full of fear and trembling! :O



Excited and intrigued!

My vote for most likely "bastard" is Samaras, simply because unlike Jul he's male. When he looks into your eyes and tells you that you look delicious with that wicked smile of his, and flirtatiously invites you back to his tent for some dinner, he's probably imagining something very different from what you are, something that you may not survive... Jul gets the vote for most likely "bitch", she is a full demon after all, and she's perfectly willing to use her sex appeal to get what she wants from you.



In the original story it might have been interesting if one of the Amazons decided that after the war it was time for you to go back to being her slave, or for Chamby to turn out to be a selfish bitch instead of a bad girl with a heart of gold, or for Rei to turn out to be a real player out to score instead of just an insecure young male giving the girl he likes a hard time because he's terrified of showing vulnerability, or for Mesphit to lose control of his demon and accidentally kill Elenor, like everyone feared he might, only to kill himself in grief afterward. Of course it's too late for any of that now, but it would have certainly stirred the pot and caused a lively discussion.

Although having “bastard characters” are a good idea, I rather see this idea used differently with maybe a cast of characters that are not romanceable. Romance is one of the main “attractions” [my opinion] besides the amazing story with a touch of an interesting turn base combat system. Having the player’s romantic interest turning out to me a major jerk face is kind of a disappointment, especially if they are one of their “first picks” and not just romantic interests that are played through for the sake of completion or story. Sometimes playing video games is kind a breather for what we used to in real life, having to worry about people being arses and such.



Take Jacob from Mass Effect for example; although he had a small fanbase, it was still super disappointing for the fans that enjoyed him to find that he wasn’t such a dedicated man... I know that life isn’t full of butterflies and rainbows, and that everyone will only love one person ever and be dedicated for their whole entire life, so if the story calls for it and it truly matches their character, then heyo bastard character all the way.



Maybe if we want the message conveyed to players to watch out for toxic people, maybe show it with a non-romanceable character. Something like Ramas’s and Dora story [which is adorable!!], and see how their relationship evolves as the story progresses.



There are bastard traits in a good portion of the characters [lot’s mentioned such as Mesh, Rei, Chambara and future romances for Samaras and Jul potentially], if they are all bastards then that makes the whole romance feature kind of meh. Or if an unlucky player who chooses that one bad character... that sucks. I mean sometimes we make bad choices, but I just prefer my video games not that depressing when it comes to relationships. It may also ruin the mood for a player if they aren’t all that interested in the other characters. Just my opinion :] For me personally I love the game so much that I romanced everyone to experience more of their story. So it depends!



Although if it is put in the game, I’m quite interested in all the ideas that have been brought up… warning signs, revenge >:], and having them be good friends rather than lovers. Hey there could be an option to roundkick their face or just be friends… or both [they deserve it right? ]

Using non-romanceable characters would be the safest thing of course.

Perhaps it could be a situation like this:

- fall in love, romance, etc

- discover betrayal

- revenge (but not bloody revenge as someone suggests )

- they become good friend

or variations of the above. It could also be a complicated relationship: you know those based on love/hate moments (which I don't recommend to anyone, but sadly they happen in real life). Then it could make more sense perhaps. The betrayal I think doesn't necessarily means having fooled the player, bug might just be a different view on a very important topic that lead to breaking up/parting ways.

Hmm, the revenge bit might be a bit optional. Here is an idea, not yet really refined:



Say, after the player discovers the betrayal, the bastards splits off for a bit. Might only be a different inn while the party is in town, or similar. Then (s)he gets abducted while away from the party, and threatened with .... whatever we think might be appropriate (this might be where we differ ) The player gets the news the bastard is abducted, but also that there is an opportunity to get a weapon of choice or so, but only if moving now. The weapon might be on a ship, for example, ready to cast off. Which gives the player the choice: Rescuing the bastard, with the reward of gloating a bit and keeping a useful party member; or getting the sword, with the obvious reward of having the sword, and additionally getting revenge. (Either the bastard is dead, if I have my way - or (s)he is released by the captor but miffed and breaks completely with the party.)



In case the game does not enter the situation, you hear about the bonus weapon, but are not at the right time at the right place. Just to avoid punishing the player for choosing an interesting path through the game.



Oh, and while un-romanceable chars would be "safe", I think having a romanceable char as bastard would make much more sense, and give much more player involvement. Just make sure the player is warned.



Edit: On reflection, it does not feel right; better would be: First a choice to get rid of the bastard (either with boot on the backside or with dagger in various anatomical parts ) - if yes, player gets sword. If no, choose rescue or sword. Gives the player the opportunity to do it to the bastard herself/himself.