Marv2000
Mar 31, 2014
I recently bought this on the humble weekly sale and so far I'm enjoying it quite a lot. And it's actually the first game ever which managed to personally offend me (just for context: I just recently finished the uncut version of Stick of truth and had no problem with that at all)- well there's always a first time I guess. It doesn't make me angry exactly but it definately rubs me the wrong way. It's about the Hitler beard on Philipp König - it's a bit unfortunate to say the least. I guess this happened more out of ignorance like "oh, Hitler wore this beard so it must be really common in germany". Let's just say it's not - because Hitler wore this beard! You see if you run around like that here in germany, you might get into some serious trouble one way or the other so I wouldn't suggest that guy to be your next cosplay character
. So I guess what I want to say is that I would be much more comfortable if germans wouldn't be depicted with Hitler beards just out of the blue cause luckily we've grown past the era when Hitler beards were cool. Make of that what you will and I wish you the best of luck with your games, nevertheless
jack1974
Mar 31, 2014
I hope this post isn't serious
OK, so I must avoid that kind of beard in all future games. I guess I should avoid also Stalin-type beard? Then the guys of Street Fighter 2 made Zangiev with the Stalin-beard too?
sorry but I really don't think that's an issue. One thing is if he was wearing a nazi-suit/clothes, but just saying that someone seems hitler because has a SIMILAR beard... UHM... is hard to take it seriously your complaint.
Also, the hair is TOTALLY different. Philipp has sideburns. And you related him to someone just because of a SIMILAR facial hair ?? I could go on with differences, like the very different head shape... but I think I made my point
Besides, I don't even make any reference to Germany in the game!
He could be of any nation. There are millions of people with german names born in USA, Canada, Australia, etc everywhere.
Philipp in particular was born in the human colony of Tau Ceti 2, which was colonized by humans only a few centuries before the events of Planet Stronghold.
So, I want to assure you that I've never thought about doing a character resembling Hitler, nor the artist that works for me did! Is just a vague resemblance
Marv2000
Mar 31, 2014
Well he has a german name and with the beard he could as well wear Nazi symbols cause that's what this beard resembles in germany, like it or not. This is not just a choice of fashion here. If you wear a beard like that in germany you're either a huge fan or you are doing satire - but no one would even think about wearing something like that casually. So it's a very odd combination. I don't assume bad intentions but it is, let's say, pretty inconsiderate. Think of it like that: On halloween you make a ghost costume which accidently looks like Ku-Klux clan robes and ring at the door of an afro american family. You can be as innocent as it gets but you'd still get the door slammed in your face at the very least.
renke_
Mar 31, 2014
König reminds me of a better shaved Jean Reno (of Léon: The Professional fame) - I wasn't even aware one could assume he's influenced by Hitler. He's imho not remotely similar, especially the faces are shaped totally different. (Full disclosure: I am German)
jack1974
Mar 31, 2014
OK but we aren't in Germany in the game: we're in a human colony in remote planet in a fictional world!
I don't think I even had to put a disclaimer "any resemblances to real persons is purely casual" in the game, but maybe I'll add that just to be sure no one misunderstands it
Honestly if I got a lot of complaints already I would have worried and changed it immediately, but yours is the first in 3 years that the game is out! Anyway, in the sequel will ask the writer to talk about Philipp's background where he'll explain he's not even German, just to stay safe
and thanks for telling me, I didn't know that even in the real world having that kind of beard would have such a strong meaning!
Marv2000
Mar 31, 2014
König reminds me of a better shaved Jean Reno (of Léon: The Professional fame) - I wasn't even aware one could assume he's influenced by Hitler. He's imho not remotely similar, especially the faces are shaped totally different. (Full disclosure: I am German)
Well for me it was instant recognition and his german name made things even harder to ignore. Even this guy calls it a hitler mustache:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaCiUAQ2stc
And that thing came up when googling the stuff directly:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/mass-effect-gaiden-planet-stronghold.70928/page-2
That one is pretty similar to my first reaction.
Oh, and the backstory doesn't matter - it's a german name and the guy has a Hitler mustache. If there was any storyline connection to that I wouldn't take that with a sense of humor anymore.
So it's not just me - it might just be me who is a bit offended by it (ignorance to me is a huge offender) but who knows, since I suspect that the audience is not extremely large with this game.
Oh and I think that a disclamer would not be appropriate - that would just enforce the assumption. Anyway since it's not intentional I would wait and see how people react to it if it gets widespread after hopefully making it through greenlight. I just wanted to make you aware of this. What you do about it is of course entirely up to you.
jack1974
Mar 31, 2014
Uhm actually the audience of the game is very big, thousands of people (and now that is in the Humble even more). Is going to be on Steam very soon too (top10 in Greenlight currently).
Since luckily the character is not a love interest, for me would take 5 minutes to tell the artist to remove the mustache, and voilà, done! (or maybe do a goatee, probably easier to modify).
I think I'll do that!
Marv2000
Mar 31, 2014
Uhm actually the audience of the game is very big, thousands of people (and now that is in the Humble even more). Is going to be on Steam very soon too (top10 in Greenlight currently).
Since luckily the character is not a love interest, for me would take 5 minutes to tell the artist to remove the mustache, and voilà, done! (or maybe do a goatee, probably easier to modify).
I think I'll do that!
Alright, cool! I appreciate the effort. Sry, gotta go - got a visitor.
Lonestar51
Mar 31, 2014
Whut? How is this a Hitler-Mustache? It's really different, you could call also it a Stalin-Mustache or a Kaiser-Wilhelm-Mustache, it's warranted about the same (i.e. not at all). Philip would have to shave about two thirds of his mustache to have it in Hitler-style, maybe you mistake it because the face is so lean.
jack1974
Mar 31, 2014
I'll ask the artist, but of course finishing the art for the second game has higher priority, since we're quite behind with it!
Marv2000
Mar 31, 2014
Uhm actually the audience of the game is very big, thousands of people (and now that is in the Humble even more). Is going to be on Steam very soon too (top10 in Greenlight currently).
Since luckily the character is not a love interest, for me would take 5 minutes to tell the artist to remove the mustache, and voilà, done! (or maybe do a goatee, probably easier to modify).
I think I'll do that!
Lol, the friend who just came by had the same "holy cow" reaction I had.
But what I actually wanted to say is that I really appreciate your courtesy and I see that it's a bit unfortunate if stuff like that happens. What I wanted to do is to explain from my perspective why this is problematic for me and why it might be problematic for others. If you decide to do something about it which hopefully doesn't interfere with your creative vision than that's awesome. And there are also valid arguments to leave it as it is. Ultimately it's up to you but I felt that this is at least worth mentioning and explaining.
jack1974
Mar 31, 2014
Yes no worries, is always good to know stuff, since of course I can't know everything, then if I can do something about it without much effort and slowing down the other projects, will try to do it
Jaeger
Apr 01, 2014
Wait a minute.... Why is there such a fuss over a moustache but South Park, a show known for making fun of people from every background, acceptable?
Lonestar51
Apr 01, 2014
Because it's a game. There is any kind of violence and gore* acceptable, but do not ever offend in the slightest in any other way. You know, because of the children. And adults** who behave more childish than kids could ever do.
* except in Germany. German versions of games have soldiers replaced by robots, and blood replaced by oil.
** also called moral guardians
Franka
Apr 01, 2014
Change his name to Philipp King and keep the mustache...
Also, happy April.
renke_
Apr 01, 2014
except in Germany. German versions of games have soldiers replaced by robots, and blood replaced by oil.
You're exaggerating, this isn't true anymore. The first part of Command & Conquer is infamous for this level of youth protection/"censorship", but nowadays USK and BPjM (formerly BPjS) are much more relaxed.
Lonestar51
Apr 01, 2014
Well, the level of violence accepted in the german version is usually quite a bit lower than in the US version. Not as bad as in the example, but still very noticeable. Except if you buy on the net where they do not care about german USK. (which does not apply to me anyway as I am austrian.)
renke_
Apr 01, 2014
Tu felix Austria
"Think of the children!!!11!!" is defined differently depending on cultural, political and legal opinions - think of sexuality in the US and the Japanese phobia concerning pubic hair and penes...
