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edm181
i know a lot of people have said they have beat him easily so i must be doing something very wrong because i cannot even beat him on easy.i have tried multiple times and so far i have only managed to get him down to 450 hp and then eventually heals himself back up to 800 hp. i don't know what i am doing wrong all my characters are level 19, i have tried different character combination based off what others have posted on another discussion board similar to this one and nothing i do seems to work. i know he is an optional boss but i really want to beat him

(also i am using the 1.0.5 version, don't know if that makes a difference)
jack1974
Check the forums, plenty of posts about this with tips. Most likely your party build is really bad. I say this because another user couldn't win in easy, and he basically picked all the Traits and no Skills. Yet he tried again after buying a lot of potions/bombs and he was able to beat the battle himself, even with that completely wrong built party, so... in Easy mode, is really impossible not to beat him!

(of course, is the hardest fight of the game, so... will need several attempts)
edm181
oh, yeah! i already read that so i got a ton of bombs of (a mixture of heavy, medium and light-i have about 80 in total) and basically bought out the stores of any potions they had, also my party isn't one sided when it comes to stats and traits or at least i think so i don't have to much experience with rpgs-this is only the 3rd one i have played (mostly play them for the story) . and i''ve been trying to beat him since Monday, with several attempts throughout the days and all i get is a very long drawn out battle where i get him to about 450 and he just heals himself until i have exhausted all my spells and bombs. as i said above i don't have a lot of experience with these types of game but everyone is saying that it should be easy so i don't understand what i am doing wrong.
jack1974
Ah I see, you know that this battle is optional and only required to get the Chalassa's good ending right? Anyway maybe in next update I can remove Deceit autohealing skill if playing in Easy :)
Troyen
If you upload your save file, maybe we can give you skill suggestions.
edm181
how do you upload a saved file on here because i would appreciate any advice i can get.
Troyen
Depends on what OS you're on.



For mac users, the save games are located at /Users/you/Library/RenPy

For Windows, it's somewhere else. There's a thread with the info in one of these forums but I can never find it. (Maybe it should be stickied to the main forum instead?)



Use a file-sharing service like Dropbox or OneDrive to upload it and link here. I don't think you can add as an attachment.
edm181
hopefully i linked it right. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtrzezmdak5g3h2/10-6-LT1.save?dl=
Troyen
Ah, this is a bit challenging. You don't have any dispel scrolls (shops don't always offer them) and many of your skills aren't great for boss fights because they require staggered, just don't work on bosses, or are more geared for AoE fights. You may want to pick up some single target spells for Act 4 and the Attacker trait on your physical damage dealers. At level 15+, it's a nice boost to damage/striking power. Plus, the AoE spells have a much lower chance to inflict debuffs than the single target ones, and Slowed, Shattered, Scared are all huge on this.



I'll be honest, with this party setup, it feels like fighting a boss on nightmare rather than easy.



With your party, I had the best luck with Shea, Krimm, and Rowinda back row, Riley, Jariel, Althea in the front row. (I went with Krimm because you don't have paralysis dispel and she has a huge amount of paralyze resistance so she can break out and keep up the bleed easier.) I didn't actually beat it; I got him to 80 HP but then he cleansed and then he healed up. I could probably do it if I tried for a bit more, but I'm limited on time.



My strategy:

Shea/Rowinda put scrolls of haste on Riley, Jariel, Althea. (Tip: if the character has at least 1 turn left on the 60% haste buff, you can give them a weak potion of haste and it'll give them +3 turns at the 60% level, so you can save your more expensive scrolls until Deceit dispels your party.) If everyone on the front row has at least 4 turns of haste, they switch to using mana/healing potions (even the cheap ones) just for the low delay. If they get unparalyzed and the front row is hasted, then I had Rowinda use Deadly Swamp (praying for Shattered) or Cyclone if Deceit already has shattered. Shea would use Earthquake to inflict Shattered or Fireball if Shattered was up for the extra dot damage. The healing spells aren't needed because you'll have plenty of turns tossing around your million healing potions.



Krimm tosses out minor healing/mana potions until she's unparalyzed (she gets 0-2 turns). I'll use Spinning Strike to inflict bleed if he's not bleeding, normal attack if Deceit is high on HP and/or the turn predictor says she'll go again before he does. Mighty Blow if he's at half health or lower. Normal only hits for 12, Mighty Blow for 40, but the delay on Mighty Blow is kinda nasty, so using it when Deceit is high doesn't seem to help much.



Riley puts up Magic Chains if the boss isn't Slowed, otherwise he does Shadow of Death for Scared.



Jariel puts up Potion of Slowness if nobody else can put up Slowed before Deceit will go, otherwise he just tosses heavy explosive bomb. (Even on easy, he seems to miss 15% of the time. Someone should teach him how to aim.)



Althea is complicated and probably the key. I tried Take Aim + hide in shadows + Critical Hit, which if you can pull it off (and the boss has Scared + Shattered) hits for ~250. But, Take Aim/Hide in Shadows both have a long delay, Cleanse wipes out Take Aim, and Curse of Whatever dispels Hide in Shadows. I managed to get the super combo hit off once, all other times part of my combo was dispelled and by the time I set it up again he had already healed out of the danger zone. I think I had better luck just tossing heavy bombs constantly.



Maybe you can play with it a bit more and figure something else out. Sorry. :( Maybe fabula has the key?
jack1974
No worries, I'm going to upload a new update today which eliminates the Cleanse skill on Deceit for easy mode. I think is the best solution since people playing in Easy don't want to bother with tough boss fights :) I just tried that save and beat him at first attempt without using any potions, so I'm sure is fine!
fabulaparva
Jack, by doing that you are turning the Easy-mode even more into a non-RPG and into a sole VN, which I thought you weren't planning to do. And also, after that, there's nothing "earning" left in Chalassa's happy ending, :P It's all your decision, obviously, so I'll shut up.



Anyway, managed to beat him. The key was to throw heavy explosive bombs with Althea (&Jariel), and trying to inflict as many DoTs as possible on him, since both Shattered and Burned will give him -33hp per turn, which turned to be crucial in my trial. Also, Rowinda's candy was heavily used towards the end to deal with the constant paralysis. I didn't use Krimm. Placed Rowinda, Shea, Jariel in the front. Althea, Riley, Vaelis in the back. This party was hugely problematic for this type of a fight. I think that in RPGs, one usually need to take into consideration both the capability to do high singular enemy dmg as well as some row damage. ...



Editing more in here shortly, plus uploading savefile taken immediately after the battle, if you wanna use that to continue.
jack1974
Jack, by doing that you are turning the Easy-mode even more into a non-RPG and into a sole VN, which I thought you weren't planning to do. And also, after that, there's nothing "earning" left in Chalassa's happy ending, :P It's all your decision, obviously, so I'll shut up.

People playing in Easy totally don't care about the RPG part. They don't want to equip the right item, pick the right skills, build up characters, reload, etc. It's fine, I know many people play like that. I think nobody can play in easy, then come here saying "BAH! Easy is too easy!!" :lol: (unless they're like Rowinda, CRAZY!)

Instead I have already several threads with people playing in Easy complaining too much, being frustrated and so on. Normal mode will remain as it is. Remember that in Loren the normal difficulty was probably like Easy in SOTW or even easier! so... :mrgreen:

(Also playing in Easy/Normal they get no achievements!)
rooke30
People are complaining that "easy mode" is too hard because they picked the wrong skills/attributes/traits. That's actually a very common experience in older style RPGs and is the reason modern RPGs are being streamlined. For future reference you could make the auto-level up/suggested-level-up automatically create decent character builds...
jack1974
For future reference you could make the auto-level up/suggested-level-up automatically create decent character builds...

Yes that probably is the best solution, something that I already do on creation when picking the auto-skills gets them the healing/most useful skills for the 3 classes. Still I kind of understand them, since for example I was very frustrated by the difficulty of some games (Blackguard for example) even at the easiest difficulty level!
fabulaparva
Save Chalassa -achievement Triggers for all difficulties. Not asking that to be changed, I think that it's good that there are also achievements that don't require everything hard/NM, just pointing out that that achievement with severely crippled Deceit will now be as easy as the "worst pirates"-achievement. :P



@edm181:

Heavily Abbreviated combat log in Spoiler just to show you the moves: Deceit started with Mass Paralysis before I could enable the log, so that first move is missing.

If you wonder about using Rowinda's canday for 0HP/SP, it's because I was using it for shortening the Paralysis effect further for one turn (Purification takes away only 3). Deceit's turns in bold


[30:07] Shea using Purification

[30:21] Althea restored 0 HP and 0 SP using Eat Candy on Riley

[30:27] Rowinda hit Demon Deceit for 27 Fire damage using Lava Storm.

[30:27] Rowinda inflicted Burning on Demon Deceit

[30:43] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.

[30:52] Vaelis buffed Jariel with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns

[30:52] Vaelis used Potion of Medium Haste

[30:58] Riley hit Demon Deceit for 32 Air damage using Magic Chains.

[30:58] Riley inflicted Slowed on Demon Deceit

[31:06] Vaelis buffed Althea with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns

[31:06] Vaelis used Potion of Medium Haste

[31:15] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.

[31:15] Demon Deceit is staggered.

[31:15] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[31:15] Demon Deceit hit Rowinda for 13 Dark damage using Insanity.

[31:15] Demon Deceit inflicted Insanity Effect on Rowinda

[31:17] Demon Deceit hit Shea for 12 Dark damage using Insanity.

[31:17] Demon Deceit inflicted Insanity Effect on Shea

[31:18] Demon Deceit hit Jariel for 14 Dark damage using Insanity.

[31:18] Demon Deceit inflicted Insanity Effect on Jariel


[31:29] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 21 Normal damage using Leg Break.

[31:29] Vaelis inflicted Slowed on Demon Deceit

[31:34] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 5 Air damage using Chant of Nightmares.

[31:34] Jariel inflicted Scared on Demon Deceit

[31:34] Jariel inflicted Chant of Nightmares on Demon Deceit

[31:35] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[31:35] Chant of Nightmares caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage


[31:35] Demon Deceit attack was dodged by Vaelis.

[31:48] Shea using Purification

[32:01] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 22 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.

[32:01] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit

[32:01] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 25 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.

[32:01] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit

[32:07] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 31 Earth damage using Backstab.

[32:07] Althea inflicted Shattered on Demon Deceit

[32:11] Rowinda hit Demon Deceit for 36 Fire damage using Lava Storm.

[32:18] Riley hit Demon Deceit for 46 Earth damage using Shake.

[32:18] Riley inflicted Confused on Demon Deceit

[32:19] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[32:19] Chant of Nightmares caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[32:19] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[32:19] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage


[32:19] Demon Deceit hit Vaelis for 12 Normal damage using Slumber.

[32:19] Demon Deceit inflicted Slumber on Vaelis


[32:29] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 21 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.

[32:29] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit

[32:29] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 25 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.

[32:29] Critical Hit!

[32:29] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit

[32:37] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.

[32:42] Jariel attack was blocked by Demon Deceit.

[32:42] Jariel used Heavy Explosive Bomb

[32:43] Chant of Nightmares caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[32:43] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[32:43] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[32:43] Demon Deceit hit Althea for 21 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.

[32:43] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Althea

[32:44] Demon Deceit hit Riley for 16 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.

[32:44] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Riley

[32:45] Demon Deceit hit Vaelis for 23 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.


[32:45] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Vaelis

[32:59] Shea neutralized Insanity Effect on Rowinda

[32:59] Shea using Purification

[33:05] Shea neutralized Slumber on Vaelis

[33:06] Chant of Nightmares caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[33:06] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[33:06] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[33:06] Demon Deceit neutralized Confused on Demon Deceit

[33:06] Demon Deceit neutralized Slowed on Demon Deceit

[33:06] Demon Deceit healed Demon Deceit for 265 HP using Cleanse


[33:32] Rowinda hit Demon Deceit for 25 Fire damage using Lava Storm.

[33:37] Riley restored 0 HP and 15 SP using Eat Candy on Althea

[33:43] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.

[33:43] Demon Deceit is staggered

[33:50] Vaelis buffed Shea with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns

[33:50] Vaelis used Potion of Medium Haste

[33:56] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 25 Normal damage using Potion Of Slowness.

[33:56] Jariel inflicted Slowed on Demon Deceit

[34:03] Vaelis buffed Riley with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns

[34:03] Vaelis used Potion of Medium Haste

[34:09] Riley hit Demon Deceit for 38 Earth damage using Shake.

[34:09] Riley inflicted Confused on Demon Deceit

[34:10] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[34:10] Demon Deceit using Chain Lightning.

[34:31] Shea hit Demon Deceit for 22 Earth damage using Earthquake.

[34:37] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.

[34:37] Jariel used Heavy Explosive Bomb

[34:58] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 20 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.

[34:58] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit

[34:58] Vaelis hit Demon Deceit for 18 Normal damage using Throwing Axes.

[34:58] Vaelis inflicted Bleeding on Demon Deceit

[34:59] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[34:59] Demon Deceit neutralized Confused on Demon Deceit

[34:59] Demon Deceit healed Demon Deceit for 265 HP using Cleanse


[35:03] Althea hit Demon Deceit for 25 Earth damage using Backstab.

[35:04] Althea inflicted Shattered on Demon Deceit

[35:07] Rowinda hit Demon Deceit for 39 Fire damage using Lava Storm.

[35:07] Rowinda inflicted Burning on Demon Deceit

[35:12] Shea hit Demon Deceit for 22 Earth damage using Earthquake.

[35:13] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[35:13] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[35:13] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage


[35:13] Demon Deceit hit Althea for 26 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.

[35:13] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Althea

[35:14] Demon Deceit hit Riley for 23 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.

[35:14] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Riley

[35:15] Demon Deceit hit Vaelis for 26 Normal damage using Mass Paralyze.

[35:16] Demon Deceit inflicted Paralyzed on Vaelis


[35:22] Vaelis restored 51 HP and 78 SP using Eat Candy on Riley

[36:59] Riley buffed Jariel with Haste. The buff will expire in 3 turns

[36:59] Riley used Scroll of Major Haste

[37:06] Jariel hit Demon Deceit for 75 Normal damage using Heavy Explosive Potion.

[37:07] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[37:07] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[37:07] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[37:07] Demon Deceit used Mirror Damage.

[37:37] Althea restored 0 HP and 4 SP using Eat Candy on Riley

[37:43] Vaelis restored 0 HP and 0 SP using Eat Candy on Riley

[38:00] Demon Deceit reflected back 18 damage to Riley thanks to Mirror Damage. Skill duration lowered by 1.

[38:00] Riley hit Demon Deceit for 36 Air damage using Magic Chains.

[38:00] Riley inflicted Slowed on Demon Deceit

[38:21] Shea using Purification

[38:29] Bleeding caused Demon Deceit 22 HP damage

[38:29] Shattered caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[38:29] Burning caused Demon Deceit 33 HP damage

[38:29] Demon Deceit is KO
.


In short.. Shea Purifies. Since Deceit tends to paralyze the backrow, Shea is put in the front as is Rowinda. Rowinda's spells have only a chance to inflict DoT conditions, but spamming those will eventually give you a run where they will stick. Heavy explosives and Vaelis throwing axes will help in inflicting Staggered on Deceit, after which a couple a other skills can be used. Inflicting Confusion and Slowed on Deceit will make him slightly easier to handle. His Cleanse removes only a number of turns of certain conditions, so spamming many turns of, eg slowed might pay off as he'll still have a couple of turns of that left on him after a Cleanse.



Not that any of this matters anymore, logging it here just in case. :)





(EDITED to remove the link)
jack1974
Save Chalassa -achievement Triggers for all difficulties. Not asking that to be changed, I think that it's good that there are also achievements that don't require everything hard/NM, just pointing out that that achievement with severely crippled Deceit will now be as easy as the "worst pirates"-achievement. :P

I know but you shouldn't really compare yourself with other people :) (it's a compliment!!)

Because here we're not talking about Nightmare, but people unable to win in Easy mode, and not just one... myself too. I tried that save 3-4 times and gave up. So I know might be a bit upsetting but you must consider what the average gamers can do, not what YOU can do. Not everyone has so much patience/skills as you (for sure, I haven't!).
fabulaparva
Sometimes(?) I word stuff in ways that will translate poorly over the internet? It's not my intention to compare myself to anyone else, I'm actually trying to spread out the gospel that it can be done through trial and error. By anyone. I'm really not that special. Maybe just cursed with patience and happened to have an ounce more time for trying it out than Troyen had. This was a particularly challenging build for this particular fight even on easy, as he pointed out. :)
jack1974
Yes, indeed I mentioned also the "patience" component. I know it well because several times I stopped playing games because I simply don't have time/patience to try a specific point (battle or puzzle or anything). Remember that Loren even had a "VN mode" in which you could skip all the battles, something that is not possible for SOTW (because some battles have specific conditions). So at least I want to make sure the Easy mode is winnable by anyone, even the most casual players :)
Troyen
People are complaining that "easy mode" is too hard because they picked the wrong skills/attributes/traits. That's actually a very common experience in older style RPGs and is the reason modern RPGs are being streamlined.

JThis party was hugely problematic for this type of a fight. I think that in RPGs, one usually need to take into consideration both the capability to do high singular enemy dmg as well as some row damage. ...

I think part of the problem, and I mentioned this in the other thread, is the skills that work best on Deceit aren't really needed on most of the enemies earlier in the game. I think the closest comparison to a tough single-target fight would be the Kodiak way back in Act 1. Since you're not up against heavy defense, healing, dispelling, paralysis-inflicting bosses all by themselves until potentially the end of Act 3, you can easily have a build that works in the rest of the game, but falls flat here.



A few difficult (but not-Deceit level) single-boss fights using some of these mechanics interspersed in Act 2 and early Act 3 would have helped "guide" people to take skills more suitable for the heavy single-boss fights with Deceit and in Act 4.



(P.S. Nobody is talking about Jul, but I suspect she's equally as difficult with this team and some of the others.)
edm181
Thank you! i really appreciate the advice i got from everyone