Today got an answer, and even if I can put an age gate without a rating, Valve still won't publish the uncensored Loren version on Steam.

Note that while I'm a bit surprised, I'm OK with it - I just find a bit funny, since there are game like the witcher3 who show ANIMATED full nudity vs the static "artistic nudes" of Loren

I also find a bit weird that they let stay a game where you massacre innocent civilians like Hatred, while female nipples, male butts! HORROR! they must not be shown!



I guess I am not big enough!

Yeah, the inconsistency with our restrictions is pretty annoying. Probably helps to have a lot of press on your side too. (There was an article this week about Apple reversing course and allowing a game with nudity on the app store - that TSA scanner game.)

Talking with a journalist, it seems that there are others VN with nudity!! I am asking more info, because if that's the case they should give me some explanations...!

Of course for obvious reasons I don't want to start a fight with them, just want to know the reasons

I was thinking, is it a must to directly mention this to valve? Perhaps, a too forthright of a description might make them assume that this is a porn VN, as people who aren't familiar with VN genres tend to usually believe they are all explicit stuff. Just put the full uncensored game version behind an age gate. It should suffice, as your VNs are really games with romance added. They aren't even anywhere near the hentai genre. Likely a risky move though!

I told them, though to be completely honest, I don't really CARE too much: I mean I hope people liked Loren not just for the ending images!! I think the "censored" versions with the clothes are very nice as well. I'm neutral to this, is only that I don't like to disappoint the fans (I said that would put the uncensored version there) so I'm unhappy only for that

I told them, though to be completely honest, I don't really CARE too much: I mean I hope people liked Loren not just for the ending images!! I think the "censored" versions with the clothes are very nice as well. I'm neutral to this, is only that I don't like to disappoint the fans (I said that would put the uncensored version there) so I'm unhappy only for that

I think most people who are fans of visual novels and independent games know how inconsistent Valve is about everything. So, I think your fans who have asked for this will understand. I agree that Valve makes many of their policies to account for expected sales first - and ultra popular games can get away with much more.

Hypocrisy, always with the Hypocrisy... It's not a big deal but its still wrong.

OK someone posted about it on reddit!! ROFL

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2pozmc/valve_refuses_to_publish_indie_game_with_nudity/20141218



made a fuss

Anyway I've read a bit the discussion (not everything since is too much!!) and I discovered the real issue: in other games who had age gate but no official rating, there was nudity but with the "hot spots" always covered (nipples, pubic area). I thought that to get the 18+ they showed REAL nudity!!! that was the main misunderstanding I had. Now I understand completely. SOTW will have 14+ age gate because never shows pubic area or nipples (well, male ones but that's OK! lol).

Anyway I've read a bit the discussion (not everything since is too much!!) and I discovered the real issue: in other games who had age gate but no official rating, there was nudity but with the "hot spots" always covered (nipples, pubic area). I thought that to get the 18+ they showed REAL nudity!!! that was the main misunderstanding I had. Now I understand completely. SOTW will have 14+ age gate because never shows pubic area or nipples (well, male ones but that's OK! lol).

Does this mean that a image with nipple tweezers would be okay if they cover them properly?



Sorry, but all this ludicrous (female) nippleophobia ... I don't even...

If tweezer is what I think it is (not sure) yes, I remember in some movie there were strippers with some plastic stuff put on the nipples, even if they were not wearing any bra or anything

Everything seems a bit ridiculous from here (the not prudish Europe! haha). Here is normal to see nude male/females in ads/commercials

See that sounds like what you would expect in America, this is so confusing .

See that sounds like what you would expect in America, this is so confusing .

I blame part of it on being settled by the Puritans. Can't blame the English for kicking them out of England

lol, indeed .

And for reference on how arbitrary the Steam system is, just go to the Steam store and look up a game called Sakura Spirit, no problems there despite being essentially as explicit as Loren uncensored.

I'm wondering if nobody has played your game at steam (so they have no context) and if there was maybe a misunderstanding over the language barrier. It sounds like Steam thinks there is a lot more going on than there really is.

Well I know some Valve employees played it but I don't know how much. The real issue I think is only the Chambara's endings, in which you can see nipples and even pubic area but in their answer they were quite generic.

I know for example that they rejected some cards I made for Bionic Heart 1, in which I put Tanya in the shower scene She was naked but covering her breast, but probably too hot to appear in a card !

They don t want the uncensord version.....damn I wish I had bought it on the main site(I didn't know the main site at the time) instead of on steam, I know we can "uncensored" it but it's still annoying to do it each time the game censored itself.

lol, indeed .

And for reference on how arbitrary the Steam system is, just go to the Steam store and look up a game called Sakura Spirit, no problems there despite being essentially as explicit as Loren uncensored.

Surprisingly, Sakura Spirit didn't show as much as the version of Loren available on the Winter Wolves site. Through convenient angles, hair covering, and impossible physics, no nipples or completely uncovered butts were shown.

Yes is a subtle difference, but apparently essential. Good to know anyway

http://vnsnow.com/2014/08/sakura-spirit-review/. I came to the conclusion that I won't touch that <censored> thing. It is beyond me why Loren's few scenes at the end (and missing formal rating) would be an issue but other game that consists (apparently) nothing but smut is okay just because the dreaded female nipple doesn't show up >.< This is a major problem with all ratings that are based solely on number of nipples and lists of cursewords without taking the context into consideration. Yes, there is erotic stuff in Loren. Not showing full frontals of female/male genitalia does not mean that sex is only implied and not shown. Yes, there's making love in Loren. But the thing is, in Loren this is in perspective and it's not hurtful, it's not demeaning, it's not exploitative and it's not something that's there for cheap thrills only. There are games that show way less than Loren do, but have way more hurtful content as far as things that the ratings should be looking out for go. But the thing is: nipples are easy to count. Number of times "blacklisted words" are said is easy to count. Putting content into context is not easy.



Okay. Better shut up now before I really start to rant, lol.

Haha, thanks. I agree with what you said. Get used to see more stuff like Sakura on Steam though, especially as it sold EXTREMELY well. While I don't know the real figures, based on the chart positions it had, is easy to say that probably sold 3-4 times Loren's.

I haven't played that game, but based on reviews I've read it has like 1 choice and stop. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong if someone wants to make a game like that, but being rewarded so much compared to a product like Loren... is a big LOL for me.

In times like this, one has to wonder why put so much effort creating a good RPG experience, using great writers able to bring beautiful characters to life, spend time/money on this and then see stuff like that earn a lot more with much less effort!

For me the answer is easy: work ethics and fans' support. But not everyone is like me