Winter Wolves - Amber's Magic Shop - the polygamy thread (SPOILERS!!!!)

jack1974 Apr 09, 2017

So, first of all let me say one thing: Forsaken had to use existing CG images while writing the story, done YEARS ago, so it's not her "fault" or idea. The game storyboard was made back in... 2011, and the art was done around same time.

OK now that we got this straight, as you might have noticed this game has a lot of "polygamy endings". Which is fine, since I never had any of them in my games, and as you know I like to TRY making everyone happy. I was sure that someone wouldn't like it. But I was sure that many people wouldn't have liked Heirs & Graces just because it's yaoi, etc. It was OK, I knew this.

Don't read below if you don't want to spoil the fun of discovering the game endings!!

The main issue for me is: polygamy is present only in the yuri routes. It's something that nowadays I wouldn't make, but we're talking about FOUR YEARS ago (and the storyboard is even of 2011!!). Remember also that the original story had only Ruby as yuri path. How times have changed, nowadays I would rather have 3 yuri and 1 otome than the opposite :mrgreen:

Anyways, as someone else posted: http://winterwolves.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3859&p=42090#p42089

It's a bit of a "sudden", and if anyone has a suggestion on how to make it work better, I'm all ears

I mean, you know from the start that Amber likes both men and women, so it's not really "a surprise" (even if you could argue that not everyone bisexual is also a fan of threesomes !! :lol:

but this is another topic). However I also understand, as that poster said, that someone who wants only a yuri path might not like those endings.

Doing more art is not possible (the game has already 24 CGs + 12 pin-up images + 2 in-game CG = insane amount of CGs!!) however, there could be a choice button at end of Cosmina and Lynn's romances to accept or not the offer? or have a different endings (text only) ? That wouldn't be a problem to add, even if there wouldn't be any extra art.

jack1974 Apr 09, 2017

Well I think I made my decision already.

I'm going to offer some alternate endings for Cosmina and Lynn light plus endings, a menu choice, so those who liked the polygamy endings can still get them. I will even try to ask some other artist if they can make another version of the ending CGs so that only Amber and Cosmina/Lynn would be present.

Apologies to yuri fans, and obviously this is something that I would never do anymore if I made the game today.

eagle 917 Apr 09, 2017

Wow, I never expected such a quick response! As I said, I didn't mean to bash the game. I highly enjoyed it! I understand how impossible it is to please everyone. I knew there would be polygamy endings, that they were present didn't surprise me. What did was how they were delivered.

I just didn't think the polygamy would be forced. I thought you would have to purposefully go after it. I think just a simple dialogue option to say no to the polygamy would be good enough. I understand how hard it might be to write in all new endings at this point. New written endings combined with new CG endings would literally blow my mind, :shock:

ha ha.

I still think it's incredible how quickly you responded and how seriously you took it. Nice to know some devs out there still listen to their fans, even the whiny ones

jack1974 Apr 09, 2017

Well I was so fast because today had no particularly big bug reports :mrgreen:

Jokes apart, it was something I noticed myself already while playtesting. So I was just waiting to get feedback from players but I already had my own doubts about it. Once again it's not Forsaken's fault, but the mistake was done years ago during the "planning stage". Of course at those times I couldn't know that the game would have been out 5+ years later, and the artist not available anymore

Anyways, new optional text endings shouldn't be a problem.

For the CGs I only meant to modify the existing ones to show only the two girls, not completely new ones

eagle 917 Apr 09, 2017

In reality I think my biggest problem is just;

I don't want to share Lyn or Cosmina with anyone else!...maybe Ruby, Ha ha. Even just edited CG's are still an amazing change!

Looks like I have even more reasons to replay the game later!

Looking forward to the changes! And all the future releases, ha ha.

OneTrueBaldo Apr 09, 2017

How times have changed...

Huuh, don't say that, I'm feeling an old geezer again! :lol:

But this remembers me of what happened to several japanese h-games I played long ago when the sensibilities/customs/laws changed: CGs deleted and/or edited, game titles modified, entire games removed from sale, etc. etc. ... AND I HATED THIS!!! :evil:

I'm OK with your "I'm going to offer some alternate endings" idea, but please keep the original CGs and 'poligamy' (that's the name for harem endings, nowadays? :wink:

) stories somewhere in the game, (Warning: politically INCORRECT opinion ahead!)

usually I think LGBT in general is a big mistake, but I hate censorship more.

jack1974 Apr 09, 2017

Of course, I'm not going to REMOVE anything from the game: just ADD some extra possibilities :wink:

I'm doing this because I feel it's not fair how it's done currently, and also it should be a simple change to do, so I'm willing to do it

BobTheMob Apr 09, 2017

These extras, Jack--we won't have to pay more for them or anything, right? (I get if we have to, though I'd rather not.)

jack1974 Apr 09, 2017

No, nothing extra to pay

Pace675 Apr 09, 2017

Happy to pay more here....I also agree with Baldo, I hate censorship and the more endings the merrier I say! (Unless you make a sequel then I feel your pain XD). In the end, it is about the overall vision of the author and does it make sense for the story?

With that said, if I am playing the yuri only version of the game....it would be a huge put off.

jack1974 Apr 09, 2017

Those will be only some texts variant, and basically editing some existing CGs to eliminate the "extra male" (if possible, right now it's just an idea) or in case of people who just want yuri and aren't into poly stuff, "unwanted male"

So just minor stuff, it's not like I'm going to add new routes or art or anything.It wouldn't be possible at this point. And also that's why I don't want people to pay anything extra for such a small change.

Rebly82 Apr 09, 2017

The extra Yuri non-poly text option, plus the editing of the CG (same CG, just edited for the extra Yuri non-poly option) sounds good. Do let us know if you will go through with it.

jack1974 Apr 09, 2017

Yes need to talk with Forsaken and also artist (I think two of the ones who work for me could do a good editing job) to estimate how long will take, but I don't think should be long.

BobTheMob Apr 09, 2017

About how long, approx, Jack?

I'm waitin until this game's got all its features to buy it, and the anticipation is KILLIN ME!!!!!!!! (Which, rather than meant as impatience, is a compliment to you and everyone who's worked on it! :mrgreen:

)

Palmettogamer14 Apr 09, 2017

I'm okay with both. But I also don't want to force Jack to overwork himself to death.

But if you edit the CGs, would they have to be redone?

Also, I'm okay with polygamy in the game, so you can include it in future games.

jack1974 Apr 10, 2017

No in this case for me would be rather simple. It would depend on writer/artist only. Editing the CG should be easy (would be only two CGs, the light plus endings). Luckily I have the background image, and a layer with the characters, so removing a character and adjusting the final result should be a simple task for an artist.

The only problem is that I'm not sure how much it would delay the game release, but for me wouldn't be much work at all

jack1974 Apr 10, 2017

Today reviewed the texts and spoke with Forsaken who raised some good points.

For Lynn:

It's never polygamy on Amber's side. As Forsaken told me by email:

Dark+: Amber successfully breaks up Lynn's engagement so she can have Lynn all to herself.

Dark: Amber causes a scene at the wedding.

Light: Amber attends Lynn's wedding.

Light+: Lynn marries Lair but she is Amber's lover (Amber does not have a relationship with Lair. She's just sharing Lynn with Lair).

So as you can see in this case it's not that Amber is in a threesome with Lynn and Lair. It's just that Amber is Lynn's lover, and Lair is fine with it. Probably the light plus ending CG showing all the three characters is misleading, and we could change the lines where Amber tells Lair "he can join" (offering the option to say that or not).

for Cosmina/Reed

This is more complex, since indeed it's a route not just about Cosmina, but about Cosmina AND Reed. The blog post introduced both of them for that reason too.

I think the biggest problem is that how was planned it would be hard to change, since if you played it, they have sex even before the ending for all possible choices, and in the next scenes they always talk happily ALL of them.

So I am not sure honestly at this point what to do. I need to put some warning for sure, maybe change Cosmina's portrait to have both Cosmina and Reed (this way should be more obvious). For Lynn is different as you read above.

I know I said I would do those changes, but today I reviewed Cosmina's route and that would really be a lot of work to make it "yuri only".

Would be weird to have them sleep all 3 together, and then at the end of the story have Amber reject only Reed for whatever reason :oops:

And also think that Cosmina would be OK with that. Quite jarring and unrealistic.

I know it's a bit disappointing for yuri-only fans. On the other hand, remember what I said at the beginning of the thread: originally there was Ruby ONLY. And the storyboard/images were done years ago. Future yuri games won't have any of those issues, you can be sure of it.

jack1974 Apr 10, 2017

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9DvCrkXkAAQUi-.jpg" style="max-width:100%">

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9DvDuBWsAAl91o.jpg" style="max-width:100%">

So this is what I've added for the next update: first of all I'm showing both Cosmina and Reed and even displaying both names in the status. So at least people are warned about what to expect when playing that route

Second since it's a threesome route it will always be enabled (since has both otome/yuri). Of course you can always choose to end the romance if you don't like it.

Forsaken will do the tweaks to Lynn's ending so it's obvious that that one isn't a poly ending, and I've also asked an artist if she can do a new Amber/Lynn kiss CG (so new one, not editing existing image). So if she can make it in time, at least you'll get that bonus.

Lol, it's already the game with most number of CGs I've EVER made! PSCD was big too, but this one with all the pin-up images is close to 40!

BobTheMob Apr 10, 2017

I was always convinced Cosmina and Reed were brother and sister...

Was I wrong?

jack1974 Apr 10, 2017

No they aren't. Have you played the game?

it's explained in the story why they look similar.